How many points?

[DesertBull]

Last year 100% of resident hunters with 22 and 23 points drew unit 10 rifle.

[Phil Carr]

So then the process I described is correct?

[654321]

I have read the bonus pass section in the AZ G&F regulations, but I guess I am still not clear on how all of this works. I will have 24 points for antelope this year. For this reason I am trying to make sure I understand this system. From what I understand 20% of the big game tags are set aside for the applicants with the highest number of points, is this correct? Does this mean that if there are 90 tags in unit 10, then 18 are set aside for the applicants with the highest number of points? Say for argument, that the highest number of points any applicant has is 24, and there are 15 residents with 24 points, all of these applicants would be drawn? (as long as their application is not requested for some reason.) If so then this would leave 3 permits still in the bonus pass pool. At that point if there are 50 applicants with the next highest level of points in this example 23 bonus point then these 50 applicants would then be placed in a drawn for the 3 permits? the help of some of the knowledgeable members is appreciated.

Thanks Phil

No argument, there are 2 residents with 25 pts. And 5 with 24. If 90 tags 18 are set aside in bonus pass but only 9 will go to residents so if you have 24 pts right now you should draw a tag in unit 10

[bonecollector777]

/>

I have read the bonus pass section in the AZ G&F regulations, but I guess I am still not clear on how all of this works. I will have 24 points for antelope this year. For this reason I am trying to make sure I understand this system. From what I understand 20% of the big game tags are set aside for the applicants with the highest number of points, is this correct? Does this mean that if there are 90 tags in unit 10, then 18 are set aside for the applicants with the highest number of points? Say for argument, that the highest number of points any applicant has is 24, and there are 15 residents with 24 points, all of these applicants would be drawn? (as long as their application is not requested for some reason.) If so then this would leave 3 permits still in the bonus pass pool. At that point if there are 50 applicants with the next highest level of points in this example 23 bonus point then these 50 applicants would then be placed in a drawn for the 3 permits? the help of some of the knowledgeable members is appreciated.

Thanks Phil

No argument, there are 2 residents with 25 pts. And 5 with 24. If 90 tags 18 are set aside in bonus pass but only 9 will go to residents so if you have 24 pts right now you should draw a tag in unit 10

And that's assuming everyone with Max points is putting in for unit 10 which I don't think is gonna happen so you're pretty much guaranteed a tag I would think.

[Phil Carr]

Thanks for the feed back. I guess I now need to decide what unit I would really like to hunt. I waited this long and really would like to hunt an area were the best chance for a trophy will be found.

[Umpqua]

Thanks for the feed back. I guess I now need to decide what unit I would really like to hunt. I waited this long and really would like to hunt an area were the best chance for a trophy will be found.

 

FYI Phil…I'm the single non-resident with 24 points, and there no non-residents that have more than that. I bought a point this year, so no competition from me. I'm holding off a year or two just because I want to hunt elk in September this year.

[almost]

1 hopefully I'll win the lottery and be hunting elk and speed goat archery unit 1 this year!! ( one can dream )

[1uglydude]

If 90 tags 18 are set aside in bonus pass but only 9 will go to residents

 

Not true. The 10% cap for Non-res is a CAP, not a set aside. That means that AT LEAST 9 of the bonus tags will go to residents, but every single one of the 18 tags could go to a resident if there were not any non-residents with more points. Or, if there were non-residents with the same amount of points, it would just be a matter of who had the better randomly assigned bonus pass draw number. There is no advantage to being a non-resident.

[654321]

If 90 tags 18 are set aside in bonus pass but only 9 will go to residents

 

Not true. The 10% cap for Non-res is a CAP, not a set aside. That means that AT LEAST 9 of the bonus tags will go to residents, but every single one of the 18 tags could go to a resident if there were not any non-residents with more points. Or, if there were non-residents with the same amount of points, it would just be a matter of who had the better randomly assigned bonus pass draw number. There is no advantage to being a non-resident.

I wish I had the draw report that actually showed each unit broke down by residents and non-residents. I would bet that rifle antelope, every early bull tag most archery bull tags and every deer tag north of the big ditch all make it to the 10% cap in fact except for the archery bull I would bet that most of those tags reach the 10% cap in the 20% pass.

[el diablo]

/>With 23 pts xforce you can pretty much pick what you want.

 

At 13 pts you can draw archery. Count on waiting another 7 yrs to get in the bonus pass. But in AZ you can draw any year in the 1-2 pass.

 

In the words of Lloyd Christmas: So you're sayin there's a chance!!!

One in a million!

[1uglydude]

/>

 

 

 

 

If 90 tags 18 are set aside in bonus pass but only 9 will go to residents

Not true. The 10% cap for Non-res is a CAP, not a set aside. That means that AT LEAST 9 of the bonus tags will go to residents, but every single one of the 18 tags could go to a resident if there were not any non-residents with more points. Or, if there were non-residents with the same amount of points, it would just be a matter of who had the better randomly assigned bonus pass draw number. There is no advantage to being a non-resident.

I wish I had the draw report that actually showed each unit broke down by residents and non-residents. I would bet that rifle antelope, every early bull tag most archery bull tags and every deer tag north of the big ditch all make it to the 10% cap in fact except for the archery bull I would bet that most of those tags reach the 10% cap in the 20% pass.

Just because that is how it works out in many of the premium hunts, it doesn't mean it is always guaranteed to happen. Also, there is currently an Article I rule change in the works that will keep the 10% non res cap in place but will limit non res applicants to no more than 5% of the total tags during the bonus pass. So, where there are 20 bonus pass tags for a 100 tag hunt, non residents could not pull more than 5 tags during the bonus pass. Five tags could still go to non resident applicants, but they would have to draw them in the next round while competing with everyone.

[Flatlander]

/>

 

 

If 90 tags 18 are set aside in bonus pass but only 9 will go to residents

Not true. The 10% cap for Non-res is a CAP, not a set aside. That means that AT LEAST 9 of the bonus tags will go to residents, but every single one of the 18 tags could go to a resident if there were not any non-residents with more points. Or, if there were non-residents with the same amount of points, it would just be a matter of who had the better randomly assigned bonus pass draw number. There is no advantage to being a non-resident.

I wish I had the draw report that actually showed each unit broke down by residents and non-residents. I would bet that rifle antelope, every early bull tag most archery bull tags and every deer tag north of the big ditch all make it to the 10% cap in fact except for the archery bull I would bet that most of those tags reach the 10% cap in the 20% pass.

To my knowledge there is no such report.

[1uglydude]

/>

 

 

/>

 

 

 

 

 

If 90 tags 18 are set aside in bonus pass but only 9 will go to residents

Not true. The 10% cap for Non-res is a CAP, not a set aside. That means that AT LEAST 9 of the bonus tags will go to residents, but every single one of the 18 tags could go to a resident if there were not any non-residents with more points. Or, if there were non-residents with the same amount of points, it would just be a matter of who had the better randomly assigned bonus pass draw number. There is no advantage to being a non-resident.

I wish I had the draw report that actually showed each unit broke down by residents and non-residents. I would bet that rifle antelope, every early bull tag most archery bull tags and every deer tag north of the big ditch all make it to the 10% cap in fact except for the archery bull I would bet that most of those tags reach the 10% cap in the 20% pass.

To my knowledge there is no such report.

Flatlander, send me a PM with your email address.

[Seldom Drawn]

I'm @ 22 BP for this year's draw.

Can,

I ask what unit you put in with 22 points.

[Capt. Don Martin]

A couple of you guys on here have nailed it when it comes to the comments on the 10% NR cap (not a guarantee) and what tags COULD go to NR's in the 20% max bonus point pool draw!

 

The fact is that on PREMIUM hunts where there are lots of NR's in the max pool, they hit the 10% cap before it ever gets to the regular draw.

 

That's why G&F is changing the rule.

 

NR's who didn't have a lot of bonus points finally figured it out that they would NEVER draw a premium tag, so many started to drop out.

 

By changing the rule to only 5% of the tags COULD go in the max bonus point draw, there is an opportunity for any NR to draw a tag in the second draw.

 

That keeps everyone in the game, as then ALL NR's will have a crack at some of those premium tags even though they don't have a lot of bonus points.

 

Is this not a "slap in the face" the guys/gals who have been in the game the longest;? I figure those folks have paid their dues and have kept applying for a decade or even two and now the rules change...hmm

 

On the other hand I see the Dept's position on this by giving others who haven't been in as long a CHANCE to draw, thereby keeping them in the game.

 

That being said I wonder when that rule takes effect, if you'll see some different draw strategies start with those in the max pool..

 

I'm thinking that the "old guys" like me (60+) who have been applying only for Unit 13B will start applying for 13A and the 12A West late hunts.

 

If memory serves me correct there are about 30 tags a year issued to NR's in the max point deer pool.

 

But about that number are going into the max pool because they (those that were just one point behind and needed only the AZ Hunter ED class) are finally taking AZ Hunter Education so they refill that max deer pool.

 

So instead of 30 tags going out each year, there will be only 15 or so.

 

Doesn't sound good for the "old NR guys" does it?

 

As a resident with 15 points though, unless I croak in the next few years, I'll eventually get a 13B tag. A benefit of being a life long resident of the Grand Canyon state!

 

Just some things to ponder...

 

Don Martin