Survey: Hunting Archery and Rifle Seasons

[Red Rabbit]

In light of the recent discussions and commissioners' meeting about the 2008-2010 hunt guidelines, what are your opinions regarding the changes to the archery deer hunt structures? Please answer the survey above, and be sure to answer each question. Thanks.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

That 20% harvest deal is going to be the end of the OTC permits.... they (Units) will fall like dominos now... as more people will hunt other units and have more success. I still believe a harvest objective is the best of both worlds..... hunter opportunity and herd management..... done so very simply. AZGF is not basing these decisions on good info or stats.... what a shame to lose such a wonderful hunting opportunity.

[Outdoor Writer]

as more people will hunt other units and have more success. I still believe a harvest objective is the best of both worlds..... hunter opportunity and herd management.....

 

Be careful what you wish for, Gino.

 

The harvest objective could be worse than basing units on the 20% success rate. Just because more hunters are in the field doesn't necessarily mean the success rate will rise. It just means they might kill more deer, thus reaching the harvest goal quicker than they would reach a 20% rate.

 

Hypothetical example:

 

The stats for last year show something like 100 bowhunters in a unit killed 10 deer for a 10% sucess rate.

So now put 500 OTC bowhunters in that unit with a harvest objective set at 40 deer, which G&F determines is the amount archers should kill. If they still maintain a success rate of 10%, which is more likely than having it increase, they will kill 50 deer. BUT...they would have to quit hunting when the harvest objective of 40 deer was hit. Thus, the success rate has just dropped to about 8%.

 

Whoops. -TONY

[ThomC]

Already people are saying that they will not report archery kills ever again. Some said that they will not send in the survey cards. I don't understand how the G&F will know what the harvest is without a mandatory survey for everyone. Also harvest rates can vary from year to year for various reasons. I wonder if the harvest rate drops will they put a unit back from the draw to OTC? Seems to me since reporting is not very reliable that they need to use 10 year averages to determine whether a unit needs to be put in the draw. Lots of questions with no clearcut answers.

[coueswt]

I hope it remains like it is except for the 12's and 13's. To many non-residents (CA/UT) in the North Kabiab.

[ac guy]

I would like to meet those of you that put in for rifle tags to bow hunt. You are dedicated

[bowhuntinmaniac]

I have applied for rifle deer in 13B for the last 7 years so I could try to bowhunt it. I have not drawn, so now I will have those bonus points for an archery deer tag in 13B. But, I would give those points up, if we could have the entire state stay with OTC tags.

One thing to remember is, the 20% is not solely based on bowhunter success, it is based on rifle hunter success.

If rifle hunters kill 100 deer in 1 unit, and bowhunters kill 19 deer, we have a 19% success rate (according to G&F). If rifle hunters kill 99 deer and bowhunters take 20 deer, then we have hit the magical mark, so that unit would be permitted the following year.

 

AZ#1, a few years ago, when G&F wanted to permit Kaibab, they estimated 3400 archery deer hunters there. They are speculating issuing 1850 deer tags next year........I dont think it will only be non residents that won't be hunting there.

So, where do you think the other 1550 bowhunters will go? Units 10, 5B,7, 6A will be my guess. Then people will complain and tell everybody it is too crowded. Then G&F will be making those a draw also.

There will be no end until is all permitted.

[KB-AZ]

I've bowhunted only since I was 14, never have put in for a rifle tag. Dec/Jan were awesome times when I was a kid as I could always count on being out of school and going hunting with Dad. I'll miss those days.

[Red Rabbit]

The units going to a lottery for archery deer are those in which archers take 20% or more of the total deer taken. It is not whether 20% of the archers take a deer. The overall archery success is still around 6%, and has been this low for many years. While archery success is still near 6%, the sheer numbers of archers hunting a unit may allow them to take 20% of the deer realtive to the rifle hunters. Using 2005 data for unit 12A (low archery harvest), archers took 106 of 740 deer for 14% of the deer, but only had 6% hunt success. Archery harvest in 2002 was 224 of 554 deer taken or 40% of the harvest. THe % archery harvest can vary wildly from year to year bepending on boththe archery and rifle success. Rifle harvest in 2002 was 320 but in 2005 was 640. Permit numbers have an effect alomng with the weather.

 

If I remember correctly from one of the regional meetings, the % would be averaged over a few years so one year's success would not throw a unit in or out of the draw. It was stated that lower success may remove a unit from the draw (but I have my doubts this may happen, and feel an overall archery draw is looming over the horizon).

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

How will this emminent archery draw affect the hunt dates????? Will you put in for the Jan. archery hunt with the spring hunts..... and also be able to hunt August with the same tag?? The Dec. hunts are history so what is the next move.... Will they try to have spring and fall archery draws??? This thing could turn into a Real Mess..... Archery Draws are a bad idea.

 

Sorry, Tony...... A Harvest Objective still promotes opportunity, while limiting "over harvest with a bow" of any one unit. It works with bear.... there was a ton of hunters in the units and the hunt is over for most of the early seasons.... but the OPPORTUNITY was there for EVERYONE to get out and hunt..... It is a solid method of management IMO.

[bobbyo]

Why is it that G+F only worries about overharvest with a bow? What about rifle. When a unit has higher harvest success with a rifle tags, what does G+F do? They don't limit the tags, but increase them. Bow hunting success goes up what does G+F do they limit bow hunting opportunity. Does this not look completely biased toward rifle hunting.

Bob

[crazy4COUES]

Why is it that G+F only worries about overharvest with a bow? What about rifle. When a unit has higher harvest success with a rifle tags, what does G+F do? They don't limit the tags, but increase them. Bow hunting success goes up what does G+F do they limit bow hunting opportunity. Does this not look completely biased toward rifle hunting.

Bob

 

I AGREE TOTALLY! Additionally, if a unit has high success rate (>20%) that means it has a good population of deer, right? So putting it to a draw is not to help archers or deer. The G&F will then be able to increase rifle tags. Meanwhile the deer populations in other units (<20%) are going to stay low with OTC. If they are going to have a draw for archery deer then an individual should choose a weapon of choice. In other words when you put in for a draw you can only hunt with a bow that year or a rifle that year not both. That will eliminate all the "closet" bowhunters and some of the revenue for the greedy G&F.

[donniedent]

This is all just another way to manage hunters (which in the end makes them more money) instead of managing deer (which costs more money).

 

Donnie

[bcoover]

I know we blame the azgfd for a lot of the problems with our wildlife. The biggest problem I see, too many hunters. The game and fish don't seem to know how to deal with it. Take Kiabab for example who here likes to hunt the early hunt with 1,000 other hunters. I don't I will never put in for that hunt. The otc deer tags are nice, because you can go each year if you choose. But when I go archery it seems like everyone and their mother is in the same area as me. I would like the archery tags to go to a draw. I enjoy archery and it would be nice to be in a unit with only 100 other huters. But I think the game and fish if put to a draw would keep the tags up around what they are otc. Which I think defeats the purpose. Who here would be infavor of a few archery trophy deer hunts and a seperate season for all the otc deer hunters. How nice would it bee to go to Kiabab September 1st with only 250 hunters. Sounds like a nice hunt to me. Consider Setember 15th all the otc deer hunters can take a wack at Kiabab. I was just using Kiabab as an example we could have an archery deer draw for the top 10 units. But also keep the otc just make them hunt after the draw hunts.

 

just a thought

[donniedent]

I don't have a problem with draw archery tags, what I have a problem with is why! They aren't doing it for the good of the herd, they're doing to manage hunters. So much is focused on how to keep this group or that group happy while keeping the money rolling that they're forgetting about the most important thing and the reason they exist.... wildlife management!!! The main reason they want an archery draw is to keep the 20% of the so called archers (most hunt with a rifle also) from taking more than 20% of the deer out of said unit. Where is the wildlife management in that????? There are 1000 different things they could do besides going to a draw. There is a discussion on a different forum about systematically shutting down units for up to 3 years to get the total numbers up, thats wildlife management. Not this crock of crap they're trying to feed us now. I don't know and don't really care if its the comission or the department but someone needs to remind them why they exist in the first place. WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT!!

 

Donnie