Arizona guide loses hunting rights in 47 states

[Heat]

Guy is a dumbass! I know for sure that the Game and Fish Detective types look for this all the time and bust lots of people trying to get our tags like he did to Utah. That being said I met him and issued him his YPG Hunting Permit and gave him a briefing back 10 or so years ago. He was a nice guy and was very knowledgable about sheep.

[1uglydude]

It's not defrauding anyone if you have literally done everything required to become a resident.

 

The point is he did NOT do everything to become a bona fide resident. The evidence showed he moved there only for the tag. The news reports didn't go into detail, but they probably showed that he maintained significant contacts with Arizona. Most of the case law on bona fide residency is in the context of welfare fraud, but it's the same concept--someone takes superficial action to make it appear as if they intend to change their residency, but their true motivation is to take advantage of benefits available in another state that are better from where they are actually living.

[trphyhntr]

 

It's not defrauding anyone if you have literally done everything required to become a resident.

Really.... Apparently a jury felt differently. If you were drawn #11 for 10 Arizona resident Bighorn tags and someone did this you'd be screaming the loudest. He never was a resident of Utah and he never intended to be... so that he could fraudulently obtain a Utah sheep tag. If you can't see that... we see the law through different sides, obviously. Ed F

A jury found oj Simpson, Casey Anthony, phil spector, Robert blake, etc. innocent. Just saying

[muledeerarea33?]

 

 

It's not defrauding anyone if you have literally done everything required to become a resident.

Really.... Apparently a jury felt differently. If you were drawn #11 for 10 Arizona resident Bighorn tags and someone did this you'd be screaming the loudest. He never was a resident of Utah and he never intended to be... so that he could fraudulently obtain a Utah sheep tag. If you can't see that... we see the law through different sides, obviously. Ed F

A jury found oj Simpson, Casey Anthony, phil spector, Robert blake, etc. innocent. Just saying

think about, people on here are potential jurors. Scary or not.

[Red Sparky]

Needed a better defense attorney. Utah just hurt because he used a loophole in the law. It wasn't a jury of his peers but Utah residents vs. a NR. He should have stayed in Utah until after the hunt, spent about a year there and then moved back.

[1uglydude]

....wasn't a jury of his peers but Utah residents vs. a NR....

 

Exactly, he was a non-resident. Case closed. You summed it up nicely.

[stanley]

Needed a better defense attorney. Utah just hurt because he used a loophole in the law. It wasn't a jury of his peers but Utah residents vs. a NR. He should have stayed in Utah until after the hunt, spent about a year there and then moved back.

 

What loophole?

[bonecollector777]

The law states that you have to move there for 6 months and you're a resident. That's what he did. Them throwing in the "you can't move here for special reasons" is kind of a broad thing. What's special? Who decides if it's "special"? I've known guys that tried to pull off the resident thing in other states just by renting a place and still living in the other state. That's obviously not ok. But he literally lived in Utah for the required amount of time they require. If they don't like that people can do that then make up other rules that say you can't do it. But if he fulfilled the requirements I don't see how they could get him for it. Unless there is more to the story.

[bonecollector777]

 

It's not defrauding anyone if you have literally done everything required to become a resident.

Really.... Apparently a jury felt differently. If you were drawn #11 for 10 Arizona resident Bighorn tags and someone did this you'd be screaming the loudest. He never was a resident of Utah and he never intended to be... so that he could fraudulently obtain a Utah sheep tag. If you can't see that... we see the law through different sides, obviously. Ed F

First off you'd never know you were #11. Second of all is I see that he fulfilled all requirements to be a resident. Yeah he obviously did it for a sheep tag but if he fulfilled the requirements set forth by Utah LAW then that's Utahs problem. Like I said maybe there is more to the story than what's being told. But if he truly and honestly lived there for 6 months he was legally a resident. But I guess they can get you with anything they want with the "you can't move here to claim residency for special reasons" thing.

[stanley]

The law states that you have to move there for 6 months and you're a resident. That's what he did. Them throwing in the "you can't move here for special reasons" is kind of a broad thing. What's special? Who decides if it's "special"? I've known guys that tried to pull off the resident thing in other states just by renting a place and still living in the other state. That's obviously not ok. But he literally lived in Utah for the required amount of time they require. If they don't like that people can do that then make up other rules that say you can't do it. But if he fulfilled the requirements I don't see how they could get him for it. Unless there is more to the story.

Bingo! That's what I'm thinking. There is obviously more to the story than was printed in the media (like an entire court case worth of info).

 

 

 

It's not defrauding anyone if you have literally done everything required to become a resident.

Really.... Apparently a jury felt differently. If you were drawn #11 for 10 Arizona resident Bighorn tags and someone did this you'd be screaming the loudest. He never was a resident of Utah and he never intended to be... so that he could fraudulently obtain a Utah sheep tag. If you can't see that... we see the law through different sides, obviously. Ed F

First off you'd never know you were #11. Second of all is I see that he fulfilled all requirements to be a resident. Yeah he obviously did it for a sheep tag but if he fulfilled the requirements set forth by Utah LAW then that's Utahs problem. Like I said maybe there is more to the story than what's being told. But if he truly and honestly lived there for 6 months he was legally a resident. But I guess they can get you with anything they want with the "you can't move here to claim residency for special reasons" thing.

 

Does just living there for 6 months fulfill any requirement to claim residency? I'm thinking he might have had to file a Utah state residence tax form for that period of time, or something like that (Maybe he filed Arizona state tax and never filed in Utah?)? As you said, there is very likely more to it.....

 

S.

[AzDiamondHeat]

Why are people defending cheating the system? Are we not ETHICAL hunters? It was a LAW that he broke. It is IRRELEVANT that we do not agree with the law. CLEARLY he KNEW the law which is why he tried to circumvent it.

 

Many of us live by a credo of "fair chase". Why? Why is only the "hunt" subject to ethics? If we HUNT ethically, why would we not defend the "system" in the same manner?

 

If you don't like Utah's laws, move there, start a petition, take it to the local legislation and get it changed. Or just don't hunt there!

 

Otherwise FOLLOW THE LAW.

 

I feel the same way about people who game the draw system here in Az.

 

I hate cheaters.

 

Just play by the rules. Plain and simple.

 

I don't know this guy and I am not passing judgment on him as a person. He did something wrong, got caught and now must suffer the consequences.

 

I wonder if he feels the sheep tag was worth it....

[HuntHarder]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting-in-utah/hunting-permits/697-are-you-a-resident.html

[bonecollector777]

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting-in-utah/hunting-permits/697-are-you-a-resident.html

I guess they could have got him on the part where it says he can't claim residency elsewhere if he was back in AZ claiming a resident license. But other than that seemed like he fulfilled all of Utahs wishes of living in their state for 6 months. Guess only the jury knows all the details.

[1uglydude]

 

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting-in-utah/hunting-permits/697-are-you-a-resident.html

I guess they could have got him on the part where it says he can't claim residency elsewhere if he was back in AZ claiming a resident license. But other than that seemed like he fulfilled all of Utahs wishes of living in their state for 6 months. Guess only the jury knows all the details.

The Utah code doesn't say "live" in the state for 6 months. Title 23 of the Utah Code says you have to have been "domiciled" in the state for six months. It futher goes on to define "domicile," as follows:

 

"Domicile" means the place:

(i) where an individual has a fixed permanent home and principal establishment;

(ii) to which the individual if absent, intends to return; and

(iii) in which the individual, and the individual's family voluntarily reside, not for a special or temporary purpose, but with the intention of making a permanent home.

(b ) To create a new domicile an individual shall:

(i) abandon the old domicile; and

(ii) be able to prove that a new domicile has been established."

 

You keep saying he did everything he needed to do to become a resident, but apparently he did not. Just living there is not enough. You need to dig deeper into each parts of the statute. Apparently he stopped at "resident" and didn't bother to look up the meaning of "domicile."

 

My guess is that they had significant evidence that he did NOT establish ties to make his Kanab home his "permanent" and "principal" domicile, and that he clearly never "abandon[ed]" his Arizona domicile.

 

Leaving the state as soon as you draw the tag would be Exhibit 1.

[BOWUNTR]

Why are people defending cheating the system? Are we not ETHICAL hunters? It was a LAW that he broke.

Helluva question... Ed F