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7mm Mag or 300 WM ?

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53 minutes ago, CraigK said:

Ha! Definitely. He builds some amazing rifles. I’m pretty blessed to be related to him. I have a want list for rifles from him... unfortunately I just need the finances to make it happen. 

I was lucky, I got my rifle built in his early days. Love this rifle and he has been good to me. 

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11 hours ago, jeffro said:

This has to be one of the funniest things i have read on a forum.

Why is it so funny? Facts are facts. I don't make the bullets, or the ballistic calculators. I've personally tested the 300 win mag side by side with a 7mm Rem Mag. I have experience with the Berger 230 Hybrid, the Berger 195 EOL, the Hornady 180 ELDM, and the Hornady 225 ELDM (plus a lot more lighter bullets). My actual drops showed exactly what I'm claiming. The only issue I found, was that I could never safely reach 2900 fps consistently with the win mag. I could reach or exceed 2900 fps with the 7 rem mag with every bullet I tested. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the 300 win mag though, because I've read where others have reached 2900-3000 fps with their win mags and the heavies. 

Berger Lists the 230gr Hybrid as their highest bc bullet for the .308 family, of .717

Berger lists the 195gr EOL as their highest bc bullet for the .284 family, of .755

Hornady lists the 225 ELDM as their highest bc bullet for the .308 family, of .777

Hornady lists the 180 ELDM as their highest bc bullet for the .284 family, of .796

Nosler lists the 210 RDF as their highest bc bullet for the .308 family, of .701

Nosler lists the 180 RDF as their highest bc bullet for the .284 family, of .719

 

Run these through a ballistic program and see for yourself. Run both the 7 rem mag and the 300 win mag at 2900 fps @ the muzzle. Both are capable of these speeds, more or less. But both are realistic numbers. The 7mm will win in MOST cases. The only bullet that I can find that will beat the 7mm, is the 230 gr SMK with a bc of .800. 

 

I did make a mistake of saying that the 7mm would carry more energy in my first post on this subject. That is false. The 300 win mag will carry more energy. 

 

 

Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .717 Wind Speed: 10
Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90
Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 230 Altitude: 0
Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53
Incline Angle: 0   Temperature: 59
    Humidity: 78

Yards
Velocity
(FT/S)
Elevation
(MOA)
Windage
(MOA)
Time Of
Flight
Energy
(FT-LB)
0 2900 0 0 0.00 4294
100 2769 0 0.4 0.11 3915
200 2642 1.5 0.8 0.22 3564
300 2518 3.5 1.3 0.33 3237
400 2398 5.9 1.7 0.46 2936
500 2281 8.4 2.2 0.58 2657
600 2167 11.2 2.7 0.72 2398
700 2057 14.2 3.3 0.86 2161
800 1950 17.4 3.8 1.01 1942
900 1846 20.9 4.4 1.17 1740
1000 1746 24.7 5.1 1.34 1557
1100 1651 28.7 5.7 1.51 1392
1200 1560 33.1 6.4 1.70 1243
1300 1473 37.9 7.1 1.90 1108
1400 1393 43.1 7.9 2.11 991
1500 1318 48.8 8.7 2.33 887

 

 

 
Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .755 Wind Speed: 10
Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90
Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 195 Altitude: 0
Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53
Incline Angle: 0   Temperature: 59
    Humidity: 78

Yards
Velocity
(FT/S)
Elevation
(MOA)
Windage
(MOA)
Time Of
Flight
Energy
(FT-LB)
0 2900 0 0 0.00 3641
100 2775 0 0.4 0.11 3334
200 2655 1.4 0.8 0.22 3052
300 2537 3.5 1.2 0.33 2786
400 2422 5.8 1.7 0.45 2540
500 2310 8.3 2.1 0.58 2310
600 2201 11.1 2.6 0.71 2097
700 2095 14 3.1 0.85 1900
800 1992 17.1 3.6 1.00 1718
900 1892 20.5 4.2 1.15 1550
1000 1796 24.1 4.7 1.32 1396
1100 1703 28 5.4 1.49 1256
1200 1614 32.2 6 1.67 1128
1300 1529 36.8 6.7 1.86 1012
1400 1449 41.7 7.4 2.06 909
1500 1374 47 8.1 2.27 817

 

 

 

Title: Hornady 225 ELD Match .308

 
 
Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .777 Wind Speed: 10
Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90
Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 225 Altitude: 0
Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53
Incline Angle: 0   Temperature: 59
    Humidity: 78
 

Yards
Velocity
(FT/S)
Elevation
(MOA)
Windage
(MOA)
Time Of
Flight
Energy
(FT-LB)
0 2900 0 0 0.00 4201
100 2779 0 0.4 0.11 3858
200 2661 1.4 0.8 0.22 3537
300 2547 3.5 1.2 0.33 3240
400 2435 5.8 1.6 0.45 2962
500 2326 8.3 2 0.58 2703
600 2220 11 2.5 0.71 2462
700 2116 13.9 3 0.85 2237
800 2015 17 3.5 0.99 2028
900 1918 20.3 4 1.15 1838
1000 1823 23.8 4.6 1.31 1660
1100 1732 27.6 5.2 1.48 1498
1200 1644 31.7 5.8 1.65 1350
1300 1560 36.2 6.4 1.84 1216
1400 1480 40.9 7.1 2.04 1094
1500 1405 46.1 7.8 2.25 986

 

Title: Hornady 180 ELD Match 7mm

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/#!/

 
 
Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .796 Wind Speed: 10
Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90
Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 180 Altitude: 0
Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53
Incline Angle: 0   Temperature: 59
    Humidity: 78

 


Yards
Velocity
(FT/S)
Elevation
(MOA)
Windage
(MOA)
Time Of
Flight
Energy
(FT-LB)
0 2900 0 0 0.00 3361
100 2782 0 0.4 0.11 3093
200 2667 1.4 0.8 0.22 2842
300 2555 3.5 1.2 0.33 2609
400 2446 5.8 1.6 0.45 2391
500 2339 8.2 2 0.58 2186
600 2235 10.9 2.4 0.71 1996
700 2133 13.8 2.9 0.85 1818
800 2034 16.8 3.4 0.99 1653
900 1938 20.1 3.9 1.14 1501
1000 1845 23.6 4.4 1.30 1360
1100 1755 27.3 5 1.47 1231
1200 1669 31.4 5.6 1.64 1113
1300 1586 35.7 6.2 1.83 1005
1400 1507 40.3 6.9 2.02 908
1500 1432 45.3 7.5 2.22 819

 

 

 

Title: Nosler 210 RDF .308

 
 
Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .707 Wind Speed: 10
Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90
Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 210 Altitude: 0
Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53
Incline Angle: 0   Temperature: 59
    Humidity: 78
 

Yards
Velocity
(FT/S)
Elevation
(MOA)
Windage
(MOA)
Time Of
Flight
Energy
(FT-LB)
0 2900 0 0 0.00 3921
100 2766 0 0.4 0.11 3567
200 2636 1.5 0.9 0.22 3239
300 2510 3.5 1.3 0.33 2937
400 2387 5.9 1.8 0.46 2656
500 2268 8.5 2.3 0.59 2398
600 2152 11.3 2.8 0.72 2159
700 2039 14.3 3.4 0.86 1938
800 1930 17.6 4 1.02 1737
900 1825 21.1 4.6 1.18 1553
1000 1724 24.9 5.2 1.34 1386
1100 1627 29.1 5.9 1.52 1234
1200 1536 33.6 6.6 1.71 1100
1300 1449 38.5 7.4 1.92 979
1400 1368 43.8 8.2 2.13 872
1500 1294 49.6 9 2.35 781

 

 

Title: Nosler 185 RDF 7mm

https://www.nosler.com/rdf-bullet

 
 
Max Distance: 1500 Ballistics Coefficient: .719 Wind Speed: 10
Increment: 100 Muzzle Velocity: 2900 Wind Angle: 90
Zero Range: 100 Weight(grains): 180 Altitude: 0
Sight Height: 1.5 Drag Function: G1 Pressure: 29.53
Incline Angle: 0   Temperature: 59
    Humidity: 78
 

Yards
Velocity
(FT/S)
Elevation
(MOA)
Windage
(MOA)
Time Of
Flight
Energy
(FT-LB)
0 2900 0 0 0.00 3361
100 2769 0 0.4 0.11 3064
200 2643 1.5 0.8 0.22 2791
300 2519 3.5 1.3 0.33 2536
400 2399 5.9 1.7 0.46 2300
500 2283 8.4 2.2 0.58 2083
600 2169 11.2 2.7 0.72 1880
700 2059 14.2 3.3 0.86 1694
800 1952 17.4 3.8 1.01 1523
900 1849 20.9 4.4 1.17 1366
1000 1749 24.6 5 1.33 1222
1100 1654 28.7 5.7 1.51 1093
1200 1563 33.1 6.4 1.70 976
1300 1476 37.9 7.1 1.90 871
1400 1396 43 7.9 2.10 779
1500 1321 48.7 8.7 2.33 697

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What you also have to consider is remaining velocity of bullet on target.  Most bullets require 1800fps minimum to open as designed.  This limits actual useful yardage you can use them.  And any of those bullets, at 1800fps remaining, have enough energy to take deer and elk.  So, it is pretty much a wash.  

Also, the 7RM and .300WM are more than capable of speeding up those MVs, meaning you will stretch the yardages you can hunt to just about any reasonable distance you would hunt.

You are talking 950-1050 yards for any of the above combinations.  Not too many people would be taking a 1000 yard shot on deer/elk.

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59 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said:

What you also have to consider is remaining velocity of bullet on target.  Most bullets require 1800fps minimum to open as designed.  This limits actual useful yardage you can use them.  And any of those bullets, at 1800fps remaining, have enough energy to take deer and elk.  So, it is pretty much a wash.  

Also, the 7RM and .300WM are more than capable of speeding up those MVs, meaning you will stretch the yardages you can hunt to just about any reasonable distance you would hunt.

You are talking 950-1050 yards for any of the above combinations.  Not too many people would be taking a 1000 yard shot on deer/elk.

You are correct. All I was trying to point out, is that a 7 rem mag will at some point surpass the win mag in drops and wind drift.

 

I was incorrect at the distance the 7 mag would exceed the win mag (in some cases), but not in every situation. With my personal experience, I could only run the win mag up to 2750 fps with most of the heavy bullets, and I could run the 7 mag at 2900-2950 fps. In that situation, the 7 mag did pass my win mag around the 500-600 yard area. I should have been more clear with my wording. 

 

The win mag hits harder, and carries more momentum. Truth. 

 

Both have their ups and downs. For me personally, the 7 rem mag is better. I can hunt up to 1000 yards comfortably, and I can punch steel and paper (while remaining above the speed of sound) out to 1500 yards. The 7 mag is flatter and has less wind drift (with my setup), at 1500 yards which makes my shooting more accurate (more predictable). It's also more efficient. It uses less powder, has less recoil, and costs less to reload for. For me it was the right choice. 

 

 

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I am with you.  I choose a 7RM over .300WM too. 

Now....if you compare .300RUM to 28 Nosler.....I will take my .300RUM pushing a 230 Hybrid @ 3110 over a 28 Nosler pushing a 195 @ 3160.  

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8 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said:

I am with you.  I choose a 7RM over .300WM too. 

Now....if you compare .300RUM to 28 Nosler.....I will take my .300RUM pushing a 230 Hybrid @ 3110 over a 28 Nosler pushing a 195 @ 3160.  

Yes, hands down the RUM. I've considered building either a 300 rum or a 30-378 wby mag as my next rifle. I want to start playing with ELR. 

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11 minutes ago, lancetkenyon said:

.300NM is a good choice too.

Here is my .300RUM pushing 230 Hybrids.

20190217_075206_zpske072csd.jpg

Now that's impressive!! 

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5 hours ago, trphyhntr said:

you ever been to 22 for the late hunt? 

Adam. Post that video.

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6 hours ago, TOBY said:

Not too many should be taking that shot....or half that distance...

Everyone wants to shoot across two time zones, if you think that everybody is up for that type of a shot, take a look at the target frames at a public range!

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On 2/20/2019 at 2:12 PM, trphyhntr said:

you ever been to 22 for the late hunt? 

So true. It is quite dangerous to be out in some areas And very few  of the shooters have a clue what they are doing. Just blasting away because they bought them selves a long range  rifle

And bathe TV or you tube

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