654321 Report post Posted June 4 6 hours ago, wildwoody said: Aren't Mohave rattlesnake protected? Still should die 4 of AZ rattlesnake species are protected and Mojave’s aren’t one of them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hucker Report post Posted June 5 Kev - this was down where we scout.... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted June 5 Thats a huge mojave! Biggest one ive ever seen for sure. Those black rattlesnakes are always aggressive as heck and loud. I've ran into a few of them in 21 and they always have an attitude. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CatfishKev Report post Posted June 5 10 hours ago, RNGRDOG said: I ran across this AZ Black a couple weeks ago. Talk about a nasty disposition! I let him have the right-of-way. Can't get the pic to rotate...😳 That thing is cool looking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CatfishKev Report post Posted June 5 1 hour ago, Hucker said: Kev - this was down where we scout.... Looks like a biggun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Tub Report post Posted June 5 6 hours ago, 654321 said: 4 of AZ rattlesnake species are protected and Mojave’s aren’t one of them. I guess they are all protected in that there is a limit on harvest, a season (yearlong), and a hunting license needed; but I know of no one that actually knows the limit. Your point on the four specific is well taken in that you cannot kill or harvest them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Tub Report post Posted June 5 OK, I had to look it up: three rattlesnakes no harvest -- E. There is no open season on Phrynosoma mcallii (flat-tailed horned lizard), Heloderma suspectum (Gila monster), Crotalus lepidus (rock rattlesnake), Crotalus pricei (twin-spotted rattlesnake), Crotalus willardi (ridge-nosed rattlesnake), Lampropeltis triangulum (milksnake; Cochise County only), Sistrurus catenatus (massasauga), Thamnophis eques (Mexican gartersnake), Thamnophis rufipunctatus (narrow-headed gartersnake), Gopherus agassizii (Mojave desert tortoise), Gopherus morafkai (Sonoran desert tortoise) and Terrapene ornata (ornate box turtle); see Notes 4 and 5. Concerning harvest on the rest, four per year dead or alive, I guess, like most reptiles. I suspect you should not volunteer how many you have killed on a public website. 😮 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
654321 Report post Posted June 5 10 hours ago, Big Tub said: OK, I had to look it up: three rattlesnakes no harvest -- E. There is no open season on Phrynosoma mcallii (flat-tailed horned lizard), Heloderma suspectum (Gila monster), Crotalus lepidus (rock rattlesnake), Crotalus pricei (twin-spotted rattlesnake), Crotalus willardi (ridge-nosed rattlesnake), Lampropeltis triangulum (milksnake; Cochise County only), Sistrurus catenatus (massasauga), Thamnophis eques (Mexican gartersnake), Thamnophis rufipunctatus (narrow-headed gartersnake), Gopherus agassizii (Mojave desert tortoise), Gopherus morafkai (Sonoran desert tortoise) and Terrapene ornata (ornate box turtle); see Notes 4 and 5. Concerning harvest on the rest, four per year dead or alive, I guess, like most reptiles. I suspect you should not volunteer how many you have killed on a public website. 😮 Rock rattlesnake, Twin-spotted, Ridge-nosed and Massasauga are protected. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IA Born Report post Posted June 5 That's a beautiful Mohave. They were my graduate research project. I studied the genetics and evolution of their venom. Most Mohave rattlesnakes have a very strong/lethal neurotoxin throughout their range in the U.S. and Mexico. Up to 40x more lethal than a Diamondbacks, depending on how you interpret the data. It was the ones in AZ that lack the neurotoxin and the ones that have properties of both neurotoxin and hemorrhagic toxins that got me interested. I miss working with those guys! I collected blood and venom from my fair of them share back in the day. Great pics! 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRDATR Report post Posted June 5 4 hours ago, IA Born said: That's a beautiful Mohave. They were my graduate research project. I studied the genetics and evolution of their venom. Most Mohave rattlesnakes have a very strong/lethal neurotoxin throughout their range in the U.S. and Mexico. Up to 40x more lethal than a Diamondbacks, depending on how you interpret the data. It was the ones in AZ that lack the neurotoxin and the ones that have properties of both neurotoxin and hemorrhagic toxins that got me interested. I miss working with those guys! I collected blood and venom from my fair of them share back in the day. Great pics! Interesting. I thought that was their main trait of having both. Was the lack of neurotoxin indigenous to a specific locale. They definitely need to be respected when being handled. After having one wrap around my forearm back in about 78 after grabing it, it was strong enough to start pulling itself out of my grip. After that I always use my weak hand to hold the body. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Carr Report post Posted June 6 Picture from last August during Archery season. One of the thickest rattlers I have seen. Body makes his head look small. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IA Born Report post Posted June 6 4 hours ago, PRDATR said: Interesting. I thought that was their main trait of having both. Was the lack of neurotoxin indigenous to a specific locale. They definitely need to be respected when being handled. After having one wrap around my forearm back in about 78 after grabing it, it was strong enough to start pulling itself out of my grip. After that I always use my weak hand to hold the body. PM me your email and, when I get back to work next week, I can send you some of the science papers I read that got me interested and motivated if you're interested. I can send you my research publication, too, if you need a cure for insomnia. The original work by Glenn and Straight (1983 and a couple of others of theirs) documented the hemorrhagic toxin to roughly parallel the east side of I-10 between Tucson and Phx (big generalization there) with outliers/specimens all around both towns. The areas having both neurotoxin (called Mojave toxin) and hemorrhagic toxin ran right along that I-10. The hemorrhagic toxin is very specific to a smaller area within Arizona and the area with properties of both is even smaller in AZ. Throughout the rest of their range in AZ, NM, NV, CA, far southwest UT and west Texas (east of El Paso), they have a very strong neurotoxin. Lethality results from LD50 tests puts venom from diamondbacks (all hemorrhagic toxin) at roughly 3-5 micrograms of venom/kilograms of body weight. Mojave toxin LD50 tests were at a range of 0.15-0.25 micrograms of venom/kilograms of body weight. True/funny story. I was processing vials of pure crystallized Mojave toxin in my lab one day, after getting all of the un-pure liquids off and I wasn't at the vent hood in my lab. It took me a few minutes to realize I'd been inhaling the pure, crystallized Mojave toxin. I lost feeling in my nose for three hours and had recurring outbreaks during times of hight stress due to the buildup of antibodies specific to the venom. I'd lose feeling in my nose for up to an hour. That went off/on for about 10 years. 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRDATR Report post Posted June 6 I'm familiar with what we call Fume Hoods which is what I am guessing is the same as a Vent Hood. How do you crystalize the venom, by freeze drying it in a vacuum with dry ice? That was what a friend would do with scorpion venom to turn it into a fine powder to then be used for anti-venom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreatWhiteBuffalo Report post Posted June 7 'I'd been inhaling the pure, crystallized Mojave toxin' LOL I had a biology professor in college who taught mycology, he had more lesions and growth on his skin then I've ever seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big or Bust Report post Posted June 7 20 hours ago, IA Born said: PM me your email and, when I get back to work next week, I can send you some of the science papers I read that got me interested and motivated if you're interested. I can send you my research publication, too, if you need a cure for insomnia. The original work by Glenn and Straight (1983 and a couple of others of theirs) documented the hemorrhagic toxin to roughly parallel the east side of I-10 between Tucson and Phx (big generalization there) with outliers/specimens all around both towns. The areas having both neurotoxin (called Mojave toxin) and hemorrhagic toxin ran right along that I-10. The hemorrhagic toxin is very specific to a smaller area within Arizona and the area with properties of both is even smaller in AZ. Throughout the rest of their range in AZ, NM, NV, CA, far southwest UT and west Texas (east of El Paso), they have a very strong neurotoxin. Lethality results from LD50 tests puts venom from diamondbacks (all hemorrhagic toxin) at roughly 3-5 micrograms of venom/kilograms of body weight. Mojave toxin LD50 tests were at a range of 0.15-0.25 micrograms of venom/kilograms of body weight. True/funny story. I was processing vials of pure crystallized Mojave toxin in my lab one day, after getting all of the un-pure liquids off and I wasn't at the vent hood in my lab. It took me a few minutes to realize I'd been inhaling the pure, crystallized Mojave toxin. I lost feeling in my nose for three hours and had recurring outbreaks during times of hight stress due to the buildup of antibodies specific to the venom. I'd lose feeling in my nose for up to an hour. That went off/on for about 10 years. I love tidbits like this. Keep them coming. Any blacktail info? My local ranges are loaded and they are the meanest freaking snakes I've ever encountered.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
