AZG&F PONZI SCHEME

[Boarman03]

I may not be on point, but why don't we take a fair look into this and come up with a solution. 

A person's medical records should be able to support their inability to use a bow.Why not have people support their need with a copy of their medical records that shows the surgery/surgeries or incident that caused their disability along with the Dr's statement. Also, we can check with a few Dr.'s on what would limit a person from drawing a bow string back of a certain poundage for the time required. And some Physical therapists have a Push-pull dynamometer, or even some Dr.s offices, Sports Medicine facilities, etc.

I'm sure as reasonable people we can come up with something that is fair to all.

[dsotm]

Why are you mad at AZGFD instead of the many multitudes of people who were abusing the system?

 

And wtf is this in the classifieds for?

[yotebuster]

31 minutes ago, dsotm said:

And wtf is this in the classifieds for?

All of CWT is classifieds as of late, so it’s a good spot for it. 
 

Also, is this still available?

[weldor]

I'll add my 2 cents.  Years ago I blew my shoulder up, weeks before my first ever early bull tag (archery 22N). Archery hunted for 40 yrs. Went to AZGF and ask about crossbow rules. They were very helpful and went to my Doctor and got the permit. Killed my bull with a lot of practice in a short window. That is the only time I used that boat anchor. I sold everything off and just Hunt with firearms now. Nothing against crossbows, but dang they are a pain. No thanks.

[firstcoueswas80]

11 hours ago, azsugarbear said:

I'm sure it sounds like a simple, straight forward process.  But the 'brain trust' at AZGFD did not consult with the medical community before crafting the language in their rules.  First of all, it is by no means simple, free or easy.  When I called the doctor's office that did my shoulder surgery to get an idea of what it would take to requalify, they couldn't even understand what I was asking for.  So I sent the language of the proposed rule to them.  They got back to me and said they did not have the right equipment to test for the things AZGFD was requiring of them.  I went back and forth with them for a week before they finally told me (paraphrasing): "they were too afraid of making a decision on a piece of equipment (crossbow) that they couldn't properly or wouldn't normally test for; and then worry about later running afoul of a "government agency".  In short, my surgeon saw no upside (except for their one-time office visit fee) and a whole lot of downside to my request.  The doctor simply said she would pass on this piece of business.  From a practical and business standpoint, I get it.  There's no future medical fees the doctor can generate by offering this service.  Secondly, it would cost the doctor more time and money to dictate the letter and fill out the form than would be covered by the visitation fee.  Even with a bona fide, partial disability that is known to the surgeon, the requirement for doctors to certify is not a slam dunk.

I understand that there were abuses with the crossbow licensing process.  As I understand it, some hunters were taking big deer every year with OTC tags.  I see how that could be a real concern to AZGFD and to the herds.  With that in mind, why not just make a rule that a deer can only be taken with a crossbow every other year, or every five years?  I spoke with two different AZGFD employees about the problems they were having and also about their proposed rule change.  But rather than going after those hunters that were abusing or 'gaming' the system by getting their local chiropractor or PA to sign off on their 'disability', AZGFD just decided it was easier to make everyone start all over again.  As far as I can tell, nobody down at AZGFD ever spoke with a doctor or the medical community in general to get their input on this.

Finally, it makes no sense to burn your points on a premium archery elk or deer draw hunt in Jan/Feb while betting on the come that you will later qualify for their crossbow permit through an unproven process that doesn't even open until July of that same year.  It's just a bad rule as it currently stands.

BTW - I did speak with another doctor regarding the certification of the AZGFD form.  He stated that he would be happy to complete the form, provided I first complete six weekly visits of phisical therapy at $150 apiece.  I passed.

 

No disrespect meant, but your last paragraph is the problem. Your doctor wanted to verify after doing the necessary steps, but you were unwilling to do so. Also if physical therapy is $150, you need new insurance. I've gone through multiple rounds of physical therapy at the cost of about 25-$40 per therapy session, copay.

[creed]

Why are we still discussing this? A handful of influential a--holes wanted a change so here we are.

I have multiple health issues that qualify me for a crossbow. I can't pull a 40lb bow anymore. I have an antelope tag that I intend to use so I'm going to get both a CHAMP and Xbow permit. Once that hunt is over my archery days are over, possibly rifle too since I am unable to support the weight of a gun with my left arm.

The day will come when all of you are going to have to  make the decision that it's time to hang it up. It's easy to talk about doing it when you're in good health and the prime of life but if you find that it's no problem quitting you never had that fire to start with

 

[trphyhntr]

32 minutes ago, creed said:

A handful of influential a--holes wanted a change so here we are.

 

 

The majority of hunters want this. most people on this site want the crossbow used on general hunts only. 

[creed]

You would know

[Broken Wheels]

I am laughing as I see the results of this posting, knew it would get a lot of responses especially from all the "know it all's" and closet doctors. Yes, I can easily "renew" my CHAMP stamp (wasn't the point) as I have numerous medical "issues" that will validate my application. My point of emphasis as expected by most was the way our government takes away from us after telling us yes you can wihtout considering the results. I won't elaborate or continue on this thread any more as it will only make me lose what little faith I have left in mankind already to be able to think open minded on any particular topic. You all can continue on your soap boxes and righteousness podiums, good luck with the draws coming up...

[AzDiamondHeat]

3 hours ago, yotebuster said:

All of CWT is classifieds as of late, so it’s a good spot for it. 
 

Also, is this still available?

Hey,  I have a buddy that has exactly what you are looking for.  DM your ss# and I'll have him reach out to you.  

[Boarman03]

I know, let's up the price of a tag for everyone so only the wealthier people can hunt. They've earned it! Plus we can stop all of the out of state tags.

Any resident of 25.or more years, no youth since you have to be a resident for 25 years or more, and who could pay $10,000 per tag and still retain the required health should get to hunt!

Those who can't afford it or who haven't lived here for 25 years or more can go without. Since everyone in this country could theoretically achieve the required wealth, everyone having an equal opportunity to do so, then there can be no argument against it. That's fair!🤣