Sick of the Arrogance

[Coach]

Jim, GREAT POST. Pretty much nails it.

[billrquimby]

"Bottome line, to each his own, and it's all just apples and oranges in the end. Killing a bull with a guide is still a great accomplishment, killing one on your own is a better accomplishment. Being honest and humble about it will win you more respect. And most importantly, for me, "The trophy is in the eye of the tag holder". It's not our tag so who cares, only once it is our tag does our opinions of trophy class then become relevant!"

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Bill Quimby

[Hunterdan]

"Bottome line, to each his own, and it's all just apples and oranges in the end. Killing a bull with a guide is still a great accomplishment, killing one on your own is a better accomplishment. Being honest and humble about it will win you more respect. And most importantly, for me, "The trophy is in the eye of the tag holder". It's not our tag so who cares, only once it is our tag does our opinions of trophy class then become relevant!"

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Bill Quimby

+1

[.270]

i'm still tryin' to figger out what this arguement is all about? Lark.

[CouesWhitetail]

+1 on Jim's post. I don't understand how someone can get upset if someone else sets different goals for their hunt. To me it's all in the challenge and I just love spending time hunting. I don't mind hunting the whole season and passing on animals and going home empty handed. But if my friend wants to do it differently, that's fine too. And I learned a long time ago that there is more meat on a trophy class animal than on a spike, and it's still great meat.

[MattMan]

I learned a long time ago that there is more meat on a trophy class animal than on a spike, and it's still great meat.

 

Wait till you kill a big rutty bull...

[CouesWhitetail]

I learned a long time ago that there is more meat on a trophy class animal than on a spike, and it's still great meat.

 

Wait till you kill a big rutty bull...

 

 

hehehe, heck I have eaten backstrap from a 476 inch rutting elk and it was very tastey!

[308Nut]

I learned a long time ago that there is more meat on a trophy class animal than on a spike, and it's still great meat.

 

Wait till you kill a big rutty bull...

 

I have had the pleasure eating many a big old rutting bulls (elk and moose). Some good and some not so good. The pattern has been if he was cared for very meticulously, he was great eating. If he was skinned and cut up quickly, not so much goodness. While I will agree that proper and carefull field care is vital regardless of the animals state or season, it is even more critical when dealing with rutting undulents. They piss on themselves, roll around in mud that has been pissed in by themselves and other nasty bulls for days and weeks. When you rush the butchering proccess, often times the nasty hide makes contact with the meat, a very dirty and contaminated knife blade (from the hide) makes constant contact with the meat, etc.....When this happens, and it does NOT take much contamination to make a lot of meat taste pretty bad and strong. When dealing with these mature rutting elk and moose etc.....You have to really pay close attention as to keeping the fur side of the hide off the meat AT ALL times and you have to keep your knife clean after cutting contaminated hide. If (more like when) a dirty knife or hide contacts any meat, the area has to be cut away ASAP. You dont have to cut huge chunks off, just a thin layer.

 

 

Take it from a guy who gets to share in the harvesting annually of big old rutting undulents, sometimes my own and sometimes a buddies that if you dont contaminate the inside of the rutting animal with the outside of the rutting animal, the table fare will be 100 times more enjoyable.

 

Rutting bulls and summer velvet bulls can both be great. Rutting ones just are not as forgiving as velvet ones.

[tjhunt2]

308nut.....that is great advise. I've been preaching that for many of years now. Not just for jevelina, which is very credical, but with every animal and bird. Take the time to treat all your game meat the same and you will have the best. I will agree a very young animal is alot tender as with most game birds but it's really hard to tell the difference when properly field dressed and prepared right. Those who normally complain about how tough and strong tasting a particular piece of meat is, not always, usually was caused during the skinning and cooling down proccess. Know before hand exactly what you are going to do with that downed animal and you will be treated to some darn good eating.

 

TJ

[billrquimby]

I learned a long time ago that there is more meat on a trophy class animal than on a spike, and it's still great meat.

 

Wait till you kill a big rutty bull...

 

I have had the pleasure eating many a big old rutting bulls (elk and moose). Some good and some not so good. The pattern has been if he was cared for very meticulously, he was great eating. If he was skinned and cut up quickly, not so much goodness. While I will agree that proper and carefull field care is vital regardless of the animals state or season, it is even more critical when dealing with rutting undulents. They piss on themselves, roll around in mud that has been pissed in by themselves and other nasty bulls for days and weeks. When you rush the butchering proccess, often times the nasty hide makes contact with the meat, a very dirty and contaminated knife blade (from the hide) makes constant contact with the meat, etc.....When this happens, and it does NOT take much contamination to make a lot of meat taste pretty bad and strong. When dealing with these mature rutting elk and moose etc.....You have to really pay close attention as to keeping the fur side of the hide off the meat AT ALL times and you have to keep your knife clean after cutting contaminated hide. If (more like when) a dirty knife or hide contacts any meat, the area has to be cut away ASAP. You dont have to cut huge chunks off, just a thin layer.

 

 

Take it from a guy who gets to share in the harvesting annually of big old rutting undulents, sometimes my own and sometimes a buddies that if you dont contaminate the inside of the rutting animal with the outside of the rutting animal, the table fare will be 100 times more enjoyable.

 

Rutting bulls and summer velvet bulls can both be great. Rutting ones just are not as forgiving as velvet ones.

 

 

308Nut:

 

Good points about cleanliness, but I think you mean ungulate, or hoofed mammal. Undulant fever is a disease humans get from drinking milk that has not been pasteurized.

 

Back in the mid-1990s, I shot a spike bull on Pole Knoll above my cabin and an old, 6x6 bull on the Jicarilla Reservation in New Mexico one week later. I personally gutted, skinned and butchered both animals and treated the meat from both equally carefully.

 

This was after the rut, and I was certain the spike's meat would be tasty and tender, while the big bull's meat would be less so. As it turned out, it was the other way around. Still can't figure why, except the spike had run a half mile uphill to me after being jumped by other hunters. The older bull was not spooked badly, and was sneaking ahead of a guy walking slowly through a patch of junipers.

 

I'd say that shooting an unalarmed animal is the secret to good meat, but the last 6x6 elk I shot was in September 2007, and it and the cow it was following had run at least a mile before it got to me. I missed with my first two shots, so that animal must have been terrified before I killed it with the third and last round in my rifle at twenty yards as it tried to run past me. Its belly was covered with urine and semen, and it smelled awful. I've shot a few elk, but that bull was the best-tasting I've ever killed.

 

Go figure.

 

Can't wait to taste the cow elk I hope to shoot above Eagar in August. I'm hoping the tender, young thing will be standing and not running, and that I can back my truck up to it and get it back to the cabin by 8 a.m. opening day. If it's later in the day, it can get awfully warm in Round Valley in August.

 

Bill Quimby

[308Nut]

 

 

308Nut:

 

Good points about cleanliness, but I think you mean ungulate, or hoofed mammal. Undulant fever is a disease humans get from drinking milk that has not been pasteurized.

 

 

 

Bill,

 

Yes, I meant ungulate! Or 'hoofed' mammals such as deer, elk and moose.....Thanks for the spelling clarification.

[.270]

ungulates all have 4 stomachs and barf up a cud and re-eat it. cows, the deer family, buffalos, goats, sheep, etc. i don't know about the african antelope. horses and pigs are not ungulates. Lark.

[Outdoor Writer]

ungulates all have 4 stomachs and barf up a cud and re-eat it. cows, the deer family, buffalos, goats, sheep, etc. i don't know about the african antelope. horses and pigs are not ungulates. Lark.

 

 

The term "ungulate" has nothing to do with the digestive system but merely indicates the presence of hooves. Thus all of the African antelope, pigs and horses are included. Perhaps you're thinking of the term "ruminant," which describes the critters with a 4-section tummy. All ungulates have hooves but all ungulates are not ruminants.

[tjhunt2]

ungulates all have 4 stomachs and barf up a cud and re-eat it. cows, the deer family, buffalos, goats, sheep, etc. i don't know about the african antelope. horses and pigs are not ungulates. Lark.

 

 

The term "ungulate" has nothing to do with the digestive system but merely indicates the presence of hooves. Thus all of the African antelope, pigs and horses are included. Perhaps you're thinking of the term "ruminant," which describes the critters with a 4-section tummy. All ungulates have hooves but all ungulates are not ruminants.

 

 

TJ

[Non-Typical Solutions]

ungulates all have 4 stomachs and barf up a cud and re-eat it. cows, the deer family, buffalos, goats, sheep, etc. i don't know about the african antelope. horses and pigs are not ungulates. Lark.

 

 

The term "ungulate" has nothing to do with the digestive system but merely indicates the presence of hooves. Thus all of the African antelope, pigs and horses are included. Perhaps you're thinking of the term "ruminant," which describes the critters with a 4-section tummy. All ungulates have hooves but all ungulates are not ruminants.

 

 

TJ

 

You're funny TJ.....reminds you of Ag classes don't it???