HB 2072 Sale of big game tags

[bonuspointjohn]

Most non-profit organizations are only required to use 10% of the money they bring in for the stated purpose, 90% of the money goes to salaries and advertising for more money. It doesn't seem to matter what the non-profit is, and executive salaries are commonly $250,000.00 on up. Why can't the bill be written so that all the money goes to AZ Game and Fish as a fund, specifically to help big game species?

 

 

This is my opinion-

 

Please do not proceed with HB2072. This bill does not help AZ Game and Fish nor the average hunter of Arizona. This bill will create more "big game hunting tags for auction", creating an unfair and unethical system of tag distribution, while generating funds for only one non-profit organization. Many people wait years for a quality tag, and as our big game are a finite resource, the tags should remain available to all, not just those who can afford to buy a tag at auction.

 

No matter what a non-profit organization says, large amounts of money always seem to be paid in either salaries or advertising for more funds. There are already big game tags given to several non-profit organizations, which are then auctioned for revenue generation for the non-profit. Please, NO more state tags should be allocated to generate funds for any non-profit groups! These groups should be given donations by the members of said group, and should not be involved in big game tags.

All revenue that is generated by the auction tags are paid directly to the AZGFD. All costs for preparing the auction / raffle are paid for by the conservation group that auctions the tag. That is law, and strictly adhered to. If you doubt it, check with the department.

[azgutpile]

The real issue and the one that mitigates any money that is raised by this program, is the power that AZSFW would gain. All of the other animal specific groups would become powerless to argue against AZSFW if they had different views. For example, if AZSFW decided that they would like to see landowner tags in Arizona all of the other groups would have to follow, or at least keep their affiliation with Azsfw. Their risk would be loosing their auction or raffle tags.

 

Please remember that these groups are only as good as their board members and without you knowing it they can change course. this is the reason why I will never become a life time member of any of them.

 

Another question I have is what was the name of the group that backed the changes to the tresspass law a couple years ago? This was the law that attached your hunting rights to any tresspass violation and and designated red posts as legal posting?

[aznate]

In response to bonuspointjohn

All revenue that is generated by the auction tags are paid directly to the AZGFD. All costs for preparing the auction / raffle are paid for by the conservation group that auctions the tag. That is law, and strictly adhered to. If you doubt it, check with the department.

 

 

A. Each year the department shall reserve certain hunt tags for taking big game species as specified in subsection b of this section for a qualified organization to resell rights to the reserved tags by auction and raffle at an annual sportsmen exposition in this state under the auspices of the qualified organization and at annual banquets in this state of any of its chapters. The proceeds of resale shall be used as authorized in this section. Within thirty days after the effective date of this section, the department shall contract with the qualified organization that has made the requisite payment and advance deposit under subsection C of this section. The original contract shall specify the terms and conditions consistent with this section for sale in bulk of rights to reserved tags, for the qualified organization to exercise its authority to resell rights to the tags at the annual sportsmen exposition and county banquets and for the department to issue the reserved tags after resale.

 

This is the first line in the bill- from what I read yes AZGFD will be reimbursed for the tags but the resell value will go to what organization? so AZGFD gets their 121.50 and the"qualified" organization gets the other $49,898.50 on a tag that auctions for $50,000.

[bonuspointjohn]

The real issue and the one that mitigates any money that is raised by this program, is the power that AZSFW would gain. All of the other animal specific groups would become powerless to argue against AZSFW if they had different views. For example, if AZSFW decided that they would like to see landowner tags in Arizona all of the other groups would have to follow, or at least keep their affiliation with Azsfw. Their risk would be loosing their auction or raffle tags.

 

Please remember that these groups are only as good as their board members and without you knowing it they can change course. this is the reason why I will never become a life time member of any of them.

 

Another question I have is what was the name of the group that backed the changes to the tresspass law a couple years ago? This was the law that attached your hunting rights to any tresspass violation and and designated red posts as legal posting?

The tags that are currently authorized by the Commission and the legislature are awarded to the conservation groups by the commission. The AZ Big Game Super Raffle is the only one that gets 1 Big Game tag of all the species. That raffle is available to everyone. The AZSFW has no control over the current tags. Landowner tags have been disavowed by all organizations and will continue to be so. The AZSFWC is the non profit arm of the AZSFW and has representation from all the critter groups. Again, no one gets paid except our lobbyist.

[apache12]

Chirs thanks for the detailed response and while you list many worthy ideas that will benefit from the money raised, the problem is that they are just that, ideas or very general programs. I think most sportsman would be more likely to agree with this bill if there was one specific program that was going to beneift from the sale of this tags that we could quantify and track and determine if it's worthy to continue supporting. Otherwise it just seems like more of our money/assets being sent to a bureaucratic entity.

 

I would also be more willing to get behind a few tags, like just the Govenor tags, but not all the other categories.

[beardown33]

from Chris Denham:

Friends:

 

I am heading out the door to the first trade show of the year but I wanted to weigh in HB 2072.

 

You are probably hearing a lot about HB 2072, which was introduced in the state legislature last week. Most of what I read is a poor interpretation of the actual bill. I encourage you to read it all and make an informed decision.

 

Let me give you a very brief synopsis of the bill. HB 2072 allows a qualifying organization to purchase about 300 big game tags from the Arizona Game and Fish Department and re-issue them via auction and raffle. The majority of the tags will be sold through a raffle to be held at an annual sportsman’s expo to be held in Arizona. There are six purposes for which this money can be spent, and they are written into the law! Here they are:

 

 

1. TO SUSTAIN OR CREATE SPORTSMEN EDUCATION AND OUTDOOR PROGRAMS FOR

YOUTH OF THIS STATE.

 

2. TO FACILITATE ACCESS FOR SPORTSMEN TO CROSS PRIVATE LANDS ONTO

PUBLIC LANDS.

 

3. TO SUSTAIN OR ENHANCE HABITAT IN THIS STATE AND TO INCREASE

TARGETED SPECIES POPULATIONS FOR DEER, SHEEP, ELK, PRONGHORN (ANTELOPE) AND

TURKEY IN THIS STATE.

 

4. TO FACILITATE PUBLIC EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATIONS PROGRAMS RELATING

TO SPORTSMEN AND WILDLIFE ISSUES.

 

5. TO PROTECT SPORTSMEN HERITAGE.

 

6. TO CONDUCT OTHER PROGRAMS OR ACTIVITIES THAT PROMOTE CONCEPTS

CONSISTENT WITH THE NORTH AMERICAN MODEL OF WILDLIFE CONSERVATION.

I. THE LEGISLATURE FINDS THAT ALL OF THE PURPOSES IN SUBSECTION H,

PARAGRAPHS 1 THROUGH 6 OF THIS SECTION COMPLEMENT AND ENHANCE THE

DEPARTMENT'S MANAGEMENT OF WILDLIFE IN THE PUBLIC TRUST UNDER THIS TITLE TO

INCLUDE CURRENT AND FUTURE PROGRAMS IN THE DEPARTMENT'S STRATEGIC PLAN AND

COMPREHENSIVE WILDLIFE CONSERVATION STRATEGY. FOR THE PURPOSES LISTED IN

SUBSECTION H OF THIS SECTION, THE QUALIFIED ORGANIZATION MAY USE THE

PROCEEDS, SOLELY OR IN CONJUNCTION WITH OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, TO MAKE MATCHING

OR OTHER GRANTS TO THE DEPARTMENT AND TO ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE QUALIFIED

PURSUANT TO SECTION 501©(3) OF THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE AND WHOSE ARTICLES

 

 

I seriously doubt that anybody would testify that these specific causes are not worthy, or that they are already being adequately managed by a government agency.

 

I have read multiple e-mails that raise false concerns or are simply incorrect. Here are some examples:

 

1. This will affect how auction tags are currently distributed. False. HB2072 specifically avoids the subject of special auction tag and will have no bearing on how those tags are distributed.

 

2. These tags can be resold. False. These tags can only be transferred under the current rules that regulate tag transfers.

 

3. These tags are being taken away from the average hunter. True, in the short run. Of course we are talking about 0.2 of 1 percent of the tags, the change in drawing odds is so small that it cannot be calculated. Besides, how difficult will it be to increase our big game herds by 0.2 of one percent with a serious cash infusion? These tags will improve the average hunter’s odds of drawing a tag within a very short period of time.

 

I have read some concerns that are very accurate, such as, “there are very few groups who could qualify for these tags”. This is very true, the bill is limiting in this regard. But, given the strict controls on how this money is to be spent, what benefit can be derived from splitting the money and further diluting its effectiveness?

 

I encourage you to read the bill for yourself. I am confident that once you have done that, you will join me in support of this bill.

 

 

 

--

Chris Denham

Marketing Director,

Elk Hunter Magazine

Western Hunter Magazine

480-993-8627

www.westernhuntermagazine.net

www.elkhuntermagazine.com

 

To say the highlighted section above is misleading is generous in my opinion. To begin with, the quote "the change in drawing odds is so small that it cannot be calculated" is completely false. Not only from a mathematical standpoint but also because the tags that will be taken from the general public will be some of the best tags the state has to offer. If 5 of the 25 unit 9 early rifle bull tags are taken away, we have lost 20% of our opportunity for this once in a lifetime tag. Additionally, the AZ G&F commission didn't find out about this bill until last Friday and voted overwhelmingly 5-0 to oppose it today. It is clear to me this bill is bad for AZ sportsmen and wildlife and should not be enacted. I have contacted my legislators and urge all others to do the same to rally opposition to this thinly veiled attempt to steal AZ state resources in the name of enriching oneself and one's cronies.

[AZBULLHUNTER]

I find it interesting that the new Governor tags that would be auctioned (to the rich) are for a year long hunt.

The legislator tags would be auctioned as well (to the rich) and would be open for all of the seasons in a given unit.

The regular sportsman's tags (raffled so the average person could draw) would only be open for the one season.

 

In summary the rich boys would either be able to hunt before the average guys does or in several different seasons. So this system is set up to benefit the rich so they can buy more tags.

 

 

I have talked to a lot of hunters from Utah and attended a meeting in Kanab Utah that was run by an organization of everyday hunters who hated the Utah system. It is worse now than it was.

 

I can only imagine what the expenses would be to run the expo and they would be paid first. Like someone else said the Fiesta Bowl is a non profit organization but it does not mean the director does not get paid 400,000 per year.

 

 

Bad idea

[.270]

to me the real issue is taking even more permits away from "us" and giving them to someone with a buncha $$$$$. i've been applying for bighorn for nearly 40 years. if this happens, the odds of me ever getting a permit goes down. might be just a little bit as far as percentages, but they are so low now it's not very likely i'll ever get drawn. and i'm just one guy. there's a buncha folks in the same boat. you can argue all you want about how much "good" it will do. money doesn't fix things. smart folks do. anything cooked up in a backroom and brought in through the backdoor has a lotta ingredients that most folks won't like and a lotta unknown consequences that folks won't like. sounds sorta like meth to me. folks don't try stuff like this unless there is another motive. and i never said all outfitters were in on it. i don't care what anyone says, i'd bet there were some involved. this is a rotten deal for joe sportsman. i can't believe any sportsman organization would try to do this to it's members. we've seen what happened to utah. no reason to think it won't happen here. i couldn't care less if i never saw another photo of an auction tag hunter, i mean shooter, again. if these jokers woulda been upfront about it, they might have had a chance, but i kinda doubt it. too much BS in this deal for sure. Lark.

[cohntr6]

THANKS FOR MAKING US ALL AWARE..Everbody needs to look at the language of the bill, who is writing it and WHY??

Should be interesting......

 

Jeff

[cohntr6]

94 people are reading this thread right now...wow..i would have thought draw results were out! LOL

[bonuspointjohn]

Based on what I have read (The bill) and the summaries, facts, opinions of everyone on here... My vote is a big fat no. Seems to be about money to me also.. Can you seriously tell me that the revenue G&F gets from all the tags/lis/app fees drawn every year is not enough to sustain our wildlife, catchments, etc.... Uh... if its not enough they are mis-managing our money as Govt is good at doing. I dont have a problem with public land hunting here in Prescott. Maybe others have that issue but if your gate is locked... go somewhere else there is a ton of land. This thing STINKS!!! I just emailed my reps to let them know what I think. Earlier post states (.2% of all tags)... yeah and half of "all tags" are javelina/turk/etc... It is a much bigger percentage of TAGS HUNTERS APPLY THEIR WHOLE LIVES FOR, which will now go to rich out of state.. and some local hunters.

 

I'm new to the forum and hate to start off on a negative post like this but just my honest opinion and I've been hunting for over 15years. Very skeptical of this bill. Nate

Hi Nate; The question of access while not an issue north of Phoenix is huge south of Phoenix. I have maps supplied by the department that show thousands of acres that are public land and not available to sportsmen. The map shows red dots for every locked gate that butts up to public land, and it is truly amazing. I counted well over 200 locked gates all across SE Arizona. The department recognizes this as a severe problem and has thrown tons of money at these landowners for access. Some have granted it for a while and then removed access when the cash ran out. This could be a funding mechanism for a lot of those places on a regular and continued basis. There are some facts that state that AZ has only 17% private land... and that is true, but... thousands of acres are not available to the public... and you pay for them. As solar power becomes more financially viable, more lands will be locked up.

[Rag Horn]

For those not counting bonuspointJohn is sitting at a -36 reputation on this topic alone. Just an observation.

[AZBULLHUNTER]

For those not counting bonuspointJohn is sitting at a -36 reputation on this topic alone. Just an observation.

that good?

[bonuspointjohn]

For those not counting bonuspointJohn is sitting at a -36 reputation on this topic alone. Just an observation.

Well, I'm just trying to answer questions and give as many honest answers as I can. When I read some of the creative theories here and how we all make such big money on these conservation groups I feel it should be responded to. I know that several are watching this website today, some are just reading, some are obviously angry. I was a part of all this mess and have been active in a lot of groups for a long time. So if people want to take their shots go ahead. Hunters all have a unique theory, all of them are right and none of them are the same..... except that you all do not like the HB2072 as proposed. We all have a deep passion for wildlife, I have given up on drawing a sheep tag (too old) and will never see the light of one of these auction tags...But it is important for people to learn more, understand what the bill was about and know that guides and outfitters were not behind this. If no one responded to this stuff, then you would all think that we who work on conservation groups are reeling in the cash, trying to cozy up to landowner tags and destroying the rights of "joe hunter"...Whether you choose to believe it or not is your choice, but at least you can vent at me.

[Tines]

I don't like the sound of any of it.