gearsnagger Report post Posted January 10, 2012 "Arizona Sportsmen Send Petition to Arizona Game & Fish Commission Urging Commission to Oppose Sweeps of Sportsmen's Dollars" "The Legislature and Governor's Office swept $7,560,695 from the Arizona Game & Fish Department (AGFD) to balance the 2008 budget deficit. The funding sweeps included $4,732,700 from the Watercraft License Fund, $395,000 from Off Highway Vehicle Recreation Fund and $2,827,600 from the Game and Fish Fund (La Osa Sheep Settlement money). In addition, another $5,600,000 ( $1,500,000 from the Off-highway Vehicle Recreation Fund and $4,100,000 from the State Lake Improvement Fund) were swept from the State Parks Department. Yup, I was aware of all that. When did the G&F go in the red and what did those funds have to do with this? "Prior to this the AZGFD was the only state agency operating in the black , this is because of the xtra sales tax hunters and fishermen pay every time they by gear ... We voted to have this tax under the conditions the money be spent on wildlife conservation , the politicians did the same thing then - Declaring an emergency so the money could be swept into the general fund to pay off Arizona's deficit!" "Did not say the F&G was in the red" -- Put words in your own mouth or shut the front door! "Declaring an emergency so the money could be swept into the general fund to pay off Arizona's deficit![/b]" Is the relevant tidbit , it's about the crooked a$$ politicians closed door late night pull the wool legislating.... Are you dense or are you trying to actually make a point! This style of legislation is still happening! This bill is just another example of it! Once the politicians get a hold on your money/revenue/resources/tags/ect. they won't let go!!! Any more questions ,,, "Mandile" 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted January 10, 2012 What organizations will be qualified? "Qualified organization" means an organization that is qualified pursuant to section 501c(3) of the internal revenue code and that meets all of the following conditions: (A) Its membership includes a significant cross-section of species‑specific wildlife conservation and sportsmen organizations from throughout this state. ( b ) It is not a member of, does not hold a charter from and is not a chapter of a national wildlife conservation or sportsmen organization. ( C ) It has been in existence for at least five years." Which organizations have $35k to qualify? "1. A nonrefundable one-time fee of ten thousand dollars for the cost to the department to implement and administer this section. 2. For the first bulk sale of rights to resell tags an advance deposit of twenty-five thousand dollars, which shall be applied as a credit toward the amount due from the qualified organization under subsection D, paragraph 2 of this section." Which organiazations are being ruled in and which are being ruled out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gearsnagger Report post Posted January 10, 2012 "We voted to have this tax under the conditions the money be spent on wildlife conservation" Whoops, forgot to ask about this one. Which tax on gear was it that the "we" personally voted on? My assumption is that he is referring to Pittman Robinson/ Dingell Johnson money that was passed back in the 1930's Yes ,,,, and the increases since it's inception! :huh: What's your point? Mandile!!! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAM Report post Posted January 10, 2012 This whole deal is starting to remind me of how the Obama administration passed Obama Care. They went back door all the way and forced it upon us without much in the way of discussion or consideration of many crucial facts. Now of course HB 2072 is very different but it sure seems like a bunch of powerful guys at the top are trying to force their veiws on the rest of us kind of like putting frosting on a turd and calling it a cake! This is not an "Emergency" and should not be fast tracked and forced down our throats!!! We don't need scare tactics to manage our wildlife. I have a lot of family and friends in Utah and have hunted there for many years. They have a system very similar to this and it has been a complete disaster. There has been a lack of accountability in reporting and spending the profits with very little if any benifits in return to the hunters and wildlife of the state. Look at the odds for the Utah raffle hunts! There are some of the lesser quality tags with decent odds but the high demand hunts have odds that are worse than the regular draw odds. This is a very slippery slope for Arizona to go down! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonuspointjohn Report post Posted January 10, 2012 This whole deal is starting to remind me of how the Obama administration passed Obama Care. They went back door all the way and forced it upon us without much in the way of discussion or consideration of many crucial facts. Now of course HB 2072 is very different but it sure seems like a bunch of powerful guys at the top are trying to force their veiws on the rest of us kind of like putting frosting on a turd and calling it a cake! This is not an "Emergency" and should not be fast tracked and forced down our throats!!! We don't need scare tactics to manage our wildlife. I have a lot of family and friends in Utah and have hunted there for many years. They have a system very similar to this and it has been a complete disaster. There has been a lack of accountability in reporting and spending the profits with very little if any benifits in return to the hunters and wildlife of the state. Look at the odds for the Utah raffle hunts! There are some of the lesser quality tags with decent odds but the high demand hunts have odds that are worse than the regular draw odds. This is a very slippery slope for Arizona to go down! There is a misconception on the term "emergency". The only reason for this portion is so that the bill would go into effect immediately rather than 90 days after sine die..... Then there could be planning for an expo in 2013. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TAM Report post Posted January 10, 2012 This whole deal is starting to remind me of how the Obama administration passed Obama Care. They went back door all the way and forced it upon us without much in the way of discussion or consideration of many crucial facts. Now of course HB 2072 is very different but it sure seems like a bunch of powerful guys at the top are trying to force their veiws on the rest of us kind of like putting frosting on a turd and calling it a cake! This is not an "Emergency" and should not be fast tracked and forced down our throats!!! We don't need scare tactics to manage our wildlife. I have a lot of family and friends in Utah and have hunted there for many years. They have a system very similar to this and it has been a complete disaster. There has been a lack of accountability in reporting and spending the profits with very little if any benifits in return to the hunters and wildlife of the state. Look at the odds for the Utah raffle hunts! There are some of the lesser quality tags with decent odds but the high demand hunts have odds that are worse than the regular draw odds. This is a very slippery slope for Arizona to go down! There is a misconception on the term "emergency". The only reason for this portion is so that the bill would go into effect immediately rather than 90 days after sine die..... Then there could be planning for an expo in 2013. Call it whatever you want it's all just a little more frosting on the turd! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Scott Report post Posted January 10, 2012 Again Respectfully: Guys, who is gathering information and looking at all the variables and who is just firing off accusations and pointing fingers and calling names? I for one am gathering/learning as much as I can before making my decision. I am also not going to start "mucking" this debate up with stuff that is not relevant to this topic. Is anyone else gathering intel like I have been? Lets get to the bottom of this. Come on guys we are all in this together. I dont know much about AZSFW but I know there are some very smart/wise/old veteran type guys involved and some guys who have dedicated more volunteer time to preserving wildlife and our hunting tradition than this whole discussion board put together. I am not taking sides (yet) but I urge you to gather facts and make a very informed decision based on actual facts rather than knee jerk reaction. Maybe start with this: positives for wildlife and negatives for wildlife........... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted January 10, 2012 the way i read it-- we all want to help the wildlife and the organizations who work for the better of Arizona the way the bill is worded is whats wrong - the SFW would have total control over all govenor type tags. they want to first use the proceeds from auctions/raffles to pay for all expenses. they want to put on a NEW expo for the raffles/auctions sales -all expenses paid - they want to put on state wide banquets - all expenses paid - they want to have all organizing administrative expenses paid - they will be the ones to say who and how much will be given ---IF anything is left over - IF -! They are trying to sneek this in ASAP- because they know the majority of -ARIZONA sportsmen - will tell you this is B.S. call - email your legislative rep- TODAY -- tomorrow is too late http://www.azleg.gov/MemberRoster.asp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TLH Report post Posted January 10, 2012 I have read the "informed opinions" that are begging all to say "NO" to this bill. I am curious about several things however. 1) without any additional funding from somewhere, how will we as sportsmen address the issue of access to public lands through private lands? As president of the ADA for the past 3 years, I have had countless calls and discussions regarding access. I read the assertions by some that there "are no access issues"... Really?... Do you think I make this stuff up? Have any of you experts talked to anyone within the AZGFD who works south of Phoenix? 2) There will be a Democratic Governor in this state at some point in the future. The last time we had appointments of commissioners from a Democratic governor they were people that all of us would like to forget. Who do you think arranged the bill so that sportsmen had a say in who would be the next commissioner? Who do you think arranged for $3.5 million dollars for habitat projects all across the state when there was money to be had in the legislature? There are always issues that need to be addressed in any bill. Condemning it to the point that all here have seemed to do is not productive. Constructive work on the bill would be a good start. Reading the bill and asking intelligent questions would be a great step. Calling members of the SFW "turds" shows a lack of class. John, this is all good but what you and the SWF are trying to push through is not. You know damned well if this gets pushed through that the land owners will fight it and they will win--this will almost guarantee land owner tags in this state--is this what you want? Really John you need to stop being a politician for once and step back and do what is right for all of us Sportsman in Arizona. Also, why do you think we will have a democratic Governor in this state soon? You can't say that--that is a guess and even if there is one do you think all of us who are not in the "big picture' can't fight for ourselves? The thing that gets me is that this is being rushed as an "emergency" and there is none--why in the heck did it have to be pushed so hard and fast--who were you and your group trying to get it past with out debate? Thank God we have these forums to let people know what is going on---i bet this would have been past and gone if it weren't for forums like this. Being informed is power John and the outdoorsman of this state have tons of resources to find the truth---you need to listen to what these people are saying and drop this bill. If Jerry is reading this he needs to understand that he will get more votes from all of us if he drops this as well--lets face it the board of the AZSFW can not vote enough times to keep a person in office but all of us can! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted January 10, 2012 Again Respectfully: Guys, who is gathering information and looking at all the variables and who is just firing off accusations and pointing fingers and calling names? I for one am gathering/learning as much as I can before making my decision. I am also not going to start "mucking" this debate up with stuff that is not relevant to this topic. Is anyone else gathering intel like I have been? Lets get to the bottom of this. Come on guys we are all in this together. I dont know much about AZSFW but I know there are some very smart/wise/old veteran type guys involved and some guys who have dedicated more volunteer time to preserving wildlife and our hunting tradition than this whole discussion board put together. I am not taking sides (yet) but I urge you to gather facts and make a very informed decision based on actual facts rather than knee jerk reaction. Maybe start with this: positives for wildlife and negatives for wildlife........... Jay, I have alot of respect for the slow approach, find the facts, get to the bottom of the bill and weigh the pros and cons. Problem is when you get thrown a fastball how much time do you really have to analyze? The fact that this bill got put on a fast track with little to no warning to those whom it will affect throws a great big caution light upm maybe even a flashing red light. Why not slow the process down and give those affected time to digest the information? Maybe even give some input on what they would like to see? Two people on this site who are pretty well versed Tony and Bill seem to be pretty keen on the dos and don'ts and they seem skeptical as have others who frequent this site. I agree, lets take the time to find the facts, but what kind of time do we have??? Respectfully, Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted January 10, 2012 Tony,as I understand it, this bill adds more governors tags. And elkaholic is incorrect, it does not give them control over all the governors tags. The bill allows for the purchase of new tags, some of which would become governors tags. The old governor tags that already exist and are auctioned by sportsmens groups are not taken over by this bill. The process for handling those tags and the revenue generated from them will remain the same. also, for those interested, I have attached a fact sheet provided by the AZSFW about this bill. Expo and Tag Legislation Outline.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted January 10, 2012 I get emails from AZSFW all of the time regarding a variety different topics. I never received anything about this. It's obvious that it has been in the planning stages for awhile. I go to thier website and see no mention either. maybe its there but i cant find it Why the secrecy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted January 10, 2012 how many governors tags do we have now ? each organization has 1 per species We know what kind of revenue they bring to the wildlife here in Arizona !! WHAT will they be worth if this goes thru!??? I do not see how they will continue to generate what they do now, if a sportsman can spend the $$$ else where and get a cheaper tag they bring the big $$$ because they are one of a kind!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted January 10, 2012 Well I guess we can see where Amanda stands on this, since she is pimping AZSFW's talking points to us... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted January 10, 2012 Calling members of the SFW "turds" shows a lack of class. I think "turd" is pretty nice considering what you are trying to do to AZ Hunters! I can think of a whole lot worse names. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
