HB 2072 Sale of big game tags

[krp]

Comes down to the attempted political theft of valuable public property, controlled by a single entity without oversite by a voting constituency, overblown statistics, gaping legal loopholes ripe for corruption, collusion and cronyism... with the promise of some future vague effort towards the average hunter's advantage... respectfully of course.

 

What's not to like?

 

Kent

[AZLance]

I am simply trying to inform and sort out the fiction that some of you were creating. That fiction was 1) The outfitters and guides were in on this... False

 

 

 

Chris Denham is listed as a board member and has been a guide, check out this link: Yellow Horn Outfitters Guide Chris Denham

 

Pete Cimallaro was a key partner in starting this orginazation and has been a guide, check out this link: Yellow Horn Outfitters Guide Pete Cinallaro

 

Trent Swanson is listed as a board member and has been a guide, check out this link; Trent swanson bio

[4TheHunt]

I am simply trying to inform and sort out the fiction that some of you were creating. That fiction was 1) The outfitters and guides were in on this... False

 

 

 

Chris Denham is listed as a board member and has been a guide, check out this link: Yellow Horn Outfitters Guide Chris Denham

 

Pete Cimallaro was a key partner in starting this orginazation and has been a guide, check out this link: Yellow Horn Outfitters Guide Pete Cinallaro

 

Trent Swanson is listed as a board member and has been a guide, check out this link; Trent swanson bio

 

I read the 990's that BPJ posted, thanks for that.

So A rich guy (Allan) is the head of AZSFW that brought in $71,454 in 2009

Then they paid $61,173 to Suzanne - I think thats about 85% of the income to ONE person.

And then Chris says that the department cant handle money for wildlife management REALLY ??

 

By all means lets give them millions....

 

Nick, If you were representing Yuma I can understand why susan might waive the $1,000 fee so she

can stand at the legislature and say she represents that entire club.

Who's vote can I by for $1000? any takers?? (other than weiers)

 

Then the other club shows Pete at the helm. and susans hubby picks commissioners

sure were represented well in this state.

Frankly I trust gfd more than these folks.

 

Out huntin for the weekend, good luck!

[Ringer]

I would like to thank CMC whoever you are. We all owe you a lot on this one. I think you are the first person to sound the alarm and just in the nick of time. It is painfully obvious that we need to fight SFW and the Gilstraps at every opportunity. SFW found an advocate in Weiers and timed this to ram it through before any of us knew about it. It was self serving and designed to steal a lot of big game tags to launch the Utah model here in Arizona. We knew Peay was for the USO suit and here we are again. Need a few thousand bumper stickers but replace USO with SFW. I am hoping all of the good organizations will pull back the 10% tything to SFW if that was true. We need to cut this group out like the cancer it is.

[elkaholic]

Comes down to the attempted political theft of valuable public property, controlled by a single entity without oversite by a voting constituency, overblown statistics, gaping legal loopholes ripe for corruption, collusion and cronyism... with the promise of some future vague effort towards the average hunter's advantage... respectfully of course.

 

What's not to like?

 

Kent

 

 

I really liked Kents reply , summed it up nicely-

[krp]

Feels like 'Uncle' snuck in at midnight, put his hands in our panties and then tried to tell us how we should be grateful for the attempted molestation when we slap the hand away.

 

Kent

[Non-Typical Solutions]

yeah we do want the facts and truth. the very things you keep ignoring in your posts. i know you think everyone is too stupid to know how much "good" you're gonna do us so there is no need tell us. we just wouldn't understand it anyway. being condescending ain't a real good way to win friends and influence people. and that's where you've stooped to now. and you sure haven't come up with a good reason to try to backdoor this deal. oh yeah, you were hiding it from treehuggers. i forgot. you already knew all the sportsmen and the azgfd would support it anyway. no need to even tell them until it's done and you have your tags. they are too stupid to understand how much "good" you are doing anyway. one thing that really has me wondering is why you never approached the azgfd about it? seems like they feel stabbed in the back too. turf is a real thing. it's quite apparant by the commission's comments that you invaded their turf by trying to do an end around through the backdoor of the capitol. and from reading what the vast majority of folks here seem to think, you stepped on their turf too. tried to take a buncha premium tags away from them and give them to folks that can afford anything. that is all this is about. just about anything you guys coulda done to raise money for conservation would have been met favorably. but you tried to take premium permits as your payment. i don't think it's gonna work. i sure hope it doesn't. one more time, why did you try the backdoor right off? why were you so clandestine and sneaky? why did you hide it from the those that would be most affected by this fiasco? sorta reminds me of the way weasels, snakes and skunks operate.

 

i don't know this weiers guy or much about him. but the reason we have elections on a regular basis and not too far apart is so when politicians support things that aren't popular with the voters they can be removed from office. and he needs to know in real plain terms that this ain't a real good thing to support and that maybe he oughta wash off the residue that is left by this bill and it's pushers. and if he wants to get re-elected he best listen to those voters.

Lark.

Ok Lark... one more time... I did not design the bill, I knew of the concept as it was stated, I did not drop the bill and I never saw it before January 5th. I have expressed multiple times that the conservation groups who attend the AZSFWC meetings were briefed as was I on the bill. I am not on the board of the AZSFW. I still support the concept of the bill 300 tags for raffle, 50 for auction. I realize that it was not presented to the community as a whole and I will not comment on that but take it to the people who did. I am simply trying to inform and sort out the fiction that some of you were creating. That fiction was 1) The outfitters and guides were in on this... False 2) That there is no emergency... I explained that by having that term applied, it simply meant that if the bill had been approved, it would not have to wait for 90 days after sine die before anyone could get moving on it. 3) That the conservation groups are making millions on it False... all the current money goes to the department and the host group pays all expenses for the privilege of auctioning the tag 4) That no one knew about the bill. False. There were a few commissioners who were briefed on the concept as was I. All the members of the AZSFWC were given the same information. 5) I am trying to respond and have been accused of being numerous things, yet when I interject a little humor I am condescending. I have not labeled anyone a snake, a crooked politician, slimy etc... I apologize if you thought I was being condescending. I was frustrated at the fact that even though I have answered to the best of my abilities, I keep getting the same questions. I will be passing on all the thoughts and attitudes on Tuesday, as will Amanda.

 

To focus on one of your false claims, reference #4 That no one knew about the bill. False. There were a few comissioners who were briefed on the concept as was I.

 

Key terms being few and briefed and then the choice to not include any of the hunting population and run it through on emergency status.

 

BPJ I have respect for fighting for a good cause, this doesn't seem to be one of them. And of all the complaints about it on this board you still seem to support the idea of using a bunch of big game tags that some of us still dream about. Antelope for example, dam they don't just give those things away.....wait, unless it is at a high dollar auction right?

 

You want us to take a step back and try to see all the good.....maybe you need to take a step back and look from the prospective of a dad trying to raise kids and hoping to get a big game tag just through the lottery draw and hoping he can afford to just pay for the tags, license, bullets, gas, food and time off work to get those kids a lifetime hunting experience.

 

But you are still ok with giving a few tags away to the highest bidder? My dad raised pigs and he said it smelled like money.........thats all this bill sounds like to me......stinky money.

[elkaholic]

Feels like 'Uncle' snuck in at midnight, put his hands in our panties and then tried to tell us how we should be grateful for the attempted molestation when we slap the hand away.

 

Kent

 

 

now i'm actually laughing so hard - i think i'm in trouble for waking my wife- awesume

[Heat]

Nick,

 

With all due respect, it is not "bunk" but taken directly from their web page. Go to their site and click the tab "about AZSFW" and "membership"

 

http://arizonasportsmenforwildlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=134&Itemid=78

 

It lists 4 types of membership - General, Business, Organization, and "Sportsmen Circle Member". Only the last 3 are listed as eligible to serve on the Board and those memberships start at $1000. You were probably on the Board as a representative of YRGC which I suspect paid the $1000.

 

The "regular joes" that you served with were all members of organizations that ponied up the money.

 

Please go check their website before you decide something is "bunk".

 

I stand by my statement.

 

Here's what you wrote.

 

"I see from their site that you have to donate $1000/year to even be eligible to be a Board member "For an individual who wants to make a special commitment to the AZSFW Mission and who may be eligible to serve on the Board of Directors.""

 

Key word here is "individual".

 

Myself and most other people on this site can read and understand English. Are you now trying to say that you weren't implying that me, and every other guy on the Board did not shell out $1000 to be on their board? Come on Bruce!

 

Where in this statement does it talk about organizations? I was serving on the Board way before the Club became a member organization. I payed a $50 membership fee. Our Club paid approximately the same amount for each member of our Club as dues for AZSFW, but was not right away. I believe it was at least a couple of years before our Club paid.

 

Again, careful relying on a website that was last published a year and a half ago.

 

"Don't believe everything you see on TV!"

[elkaholic]

Guess i really do not care who's who on the boards of azsfwc or azsfw

 

lets get back to BILL 2072

And why we haven't seen an official - the bill is KILLED - Finished - DEAD -- ETC

 

MR. Weiers do you still intend to sponsor this bill???

 

Surely you can see the sportsmen/hunters of the State of Arizona do not want this bill!

 

what does it take to get this bill removed ?? thats what I'm worried about - !!

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

Nick,

 

I have emailed Ms Gilstrap (AzSFW's contact person) and asked "If I am not a member of a sponsoring organization, a business partner, or a $1000 donor, how do I get to be a Board member of AzSFW?"

 

IF.... I get a reply I will be sure to post it.

 

If they cant even update their website more than every couple years it's just one small example of the multitude of reasons that I and others on this forum seem to distrust the organization with something as important as the tags that are the subject of HB 2072.

 

By the way, how were Board elections carried out?

[Heat]

This I can tell you, when the deal was first conceived, people were "hand picked" so to speak. How those names were arrived at, I have no idea, but I think it had to do with prominent players at the time. I know I was not their first choice. Some of you may know of Jonny Fugate. He was originally picked but asked me to serve in his place as he had too much going at the time and I believe he was on the outs on Wildlife stuff. Our Club approved that.

 

I can also tell you that occasionally someone would resign and another name would come up. How those names were arrived at, I don't know that either but as a Board we voted those folks in. In theory those names were supposed to come from County Affiliates.

 

Let me see if I can dig up a version of the bylaws.

 

Nick

[elkaholic]

Can anyone find out where we can actually see the status of this bill - so we can monitor it-

 

just saying it's on hold - means squat to me !

 

I've tried looking it up but not sure where its at on the agenda

 

I see where the commitee of commerce meeting was canceled 1-10-2012

[Heat]

Another thing I have to add is that I have a lot of respect for BPJ to stand in here and take the shots he's been taking. He could made things a lot easier for himself by just remaining silent. He chose to defend something that he believes in, and that in itself is an admirable trait.

 

I do have to pick on a couple of points he made though. AZSFW is not the only Club that knows how to work with the Legislature. I think they took a cue from some other orgs. AZSFW has not accomplished way more than other clubs. Seriously, there is no way AZSFW has accomplished as much for wildlife as the ADBSS has. I also know that in the YVRGC's 75 year history, we've done our fair share. AZSFW is not the only show in town. If you examine the Commission's history we've had very strong representation. That is not by accident.

 

Nick

[twigsnapper]

A couple of notes: 1)I love the passion/anger from everyone. 2) I am trying to remain open minded because the people who "dropped" this bill do a lot for sportsman in AZ. I think the concept has some merit but the implementation is sorry at best. I would just like to propose a thought. After the dust settles on this Bill, and it's likely to get shot down quickly, please keep your eyes and ears out for other issues. I think, we are all against taking tags away from the general draw but rest assured if this WOLF reintro happens and we are not allowed to manage the wolf population the 341 tags this Bill is requesting will be childs play compared to the potential tags lost to over predation from wolves, look at the moose population in WY. Environmentalists are a much bigger issue/concern to sportsmen then HB 2072 and they have much more money then AZSFW, they happen to be very sneaky and very calculated. Keep your radars up, and fight for what you love, just make sure your punching the right person at the bar.