Scopes

[firstcoueswas80]

Hd5 zeiss

[Pine Donkey]

Ever open a can and worms came out and you didn't know crap about what kind of worms they even were!? Well it has happened to me! This is way more confusing than what gun to buy! So now I'm starting to learn about parallax, FTP, Sfp, different reticals. My head is about to explode.

I do not want to be a sniper at 1400 yds. I want a gun to backpack hunt with, I think I have the gun figured out, and a scope to get it done out to 700 yds. But practice out further. Ease and simplicity of use is important. Am I pipe dreaming to think 700 yd shots can not be donewithout a computer present? Haha. Help me out guys

Just to help your head explode...be sure you have a full understanding of the differences between First Focal Plane and Second Focal Plane. Just sayin...

[lancetkenyon]

I recently picked up a used SWFA SS 5-20X50 and I was instantly amazed at how much better the glass is than my 6.5-20x50 Leupold VX-III LR.

 

I have a few Vortex too, and the SWFA blows them away. Tracks perfectly, crystal clear, FFP, great reticle, but heavy. Close range focus leaves just a bit to be desired, but 35 yds. at 5X is clear as anything else I own. And you don't buy a 5-20 to shoot at 25 yds. anyway.

[willhunt4coues]

FFP (front focal plane) the sub-tensions (little marks in the scope which usually equal 1 or 2 moa) will remain consistent, so say you have a 6-24x50 scope and you are on 20x then you want to hold over 2moa on your shot instead of dialing the turret then you just hold over to 2. On a SFP scope (second focal plane) the sub-tensions only work at 24x. You can try to figure out the math on another power but it gets confusing and if your deer is 300 yards then 24x will probably be too much power.

 

Parallax best way to describe it is focus and moving the reticle. So lets say your scope is out of focus at 100 yards move your head left/right & up/down you will see the reticle moves all around the target. When you focus (parallax adjust) then it should become clear and when you move your head around again you can see the reticle stay on target and not move.

 

you may only want to shoot 700 yards but still get a scope that adjusts at least 70 moa. Even with a 20 moa base you can still use 20 moa just getting a zero leaving you with 50 moa. Now lets say you get a 70 moa scope with a 0 moa base you may use 30 to 40 moa just to get a zero leaving you with 30 or 40 moa of adjustments which is enough to get to 1000 yards depending on caliber and ballistics. Lets say you get a 50 moa scope (most non long range scopes are this) and you use a 0 moa base now you only have 10 to 20 moa and thats it. So don't chance it get the scope with the best clarity, tracking, MOA adjustments, for the money. You can never have too many MOA but you don't want to get a scope that does not have enough then you have to sell it and get one that does you will be losing money then.

 

Check out every review you can. Look at the new Nightforce SHV 5-20x56, Sightron 6-24x50 (you will love the moa reticle has a floating dot). These scope are between 742.00 to 1100.00 worth every penny and more.

[208muley]

Awesome info wh4c, I have gone ahead a bought a kimber mountain ascent in 280ai. I am having it floated and bedded as we speak. I bought the gun primarily due to be super light and great for backpacking for Coues deer. I would like to get a lighter scope as well, if possible, the gun came with 1" talleys and that's what I would like to use. I have heard good things about about the 6.5x20x40 vo leupoldvx3. With just a duplex reticle with turrets sfp. I want to keep it simple as I can to shoot out to 700.

 

Am I way out of line with my thinking?can you shoot longer ranges without all the drop charts, moa reticles, and such? I am not locked in to anything yet but I do want to get this done ASAP so I have time to work up a good load and hunt. Thanks

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

I'm with you 208, I use a fixed 10 power and fixed 20 for long range with simple mildot. I can keep up with my buddies razor HD all day. Less is more for me but I know the scopes mentioned are very good. Just depends on what you like to use. Those are target guns though. I only hunt with basic Bushnell 3 9 40 but I don't plan on shooting past 300 or so. Maybe ignorant on my part but I figure if I can walk to a dead deer at 800 I can walk to get a better shot under 300 if not good for the deer. Maybe when I can't get to that 200 in mule deer someday I will go buy the sightrn.

[208muley]

I hear ya pack hunter. I killed my best Muley at 83yds even though I had borrowed a gun to shoot really far! I drank the koolaid ! Can't say anymore than that. However, I decided to buy a lightweight long range gun due to the country I'm finding really good whitetails in. Shots can definatly be 5-600. Just want to keep it simple cause when a 125" buck steps out at 537 yds and I'm getting all excited about killing him the last thing I want to do is forget one of the 25 steps I need to do to shoot one of these high tech scopes and miss the deer and screw up the the peace of the wilderness with a whole bunch of loud swearing. Lol Range, dial moa, aim, squeeze, hopefully smile for hero pics sound so much better.

[Big Browns]

I hear ya pack hunter. I killed my best Muley at 83yds even though I had borrowed a gun to shoot really far! I drank the koolaid ! Can't say anymore than that. However, I decided to buy a lightweight long range gun due to the country I'm finding really good whitetails in. Shots can definatly be 5-600. Just want to keep it simple cause when a 125" buck steps out at 537 yds and I'm getting all excited about killing him the last thing I want to do is forget one of the 25 steps I need to do to shoot one of these high tech scopes and miss the deer and screw up the the peace of the wilderness with a whole bunch of loud swearing. Lol Range, dial moa, aim, squeeze, hopefully smile for hero pics sound so much better.

 

You will want a First Focal Plane scope!!!!!

 

I hear a lot of guys say " You can always get closer ". They are correct. The question is, can you get closer and get a shot without spooking the Animal? I agree we should always try to get as close as we can, but when does close become close enough. I can assure you that most of the places I hunt you can not get "closer" without stepping off a canyon or spooking the animal. I say you should prepair for a long shot(500-1000 yards), but hope for the chip shot. If you only prepair for the chip shot you will not be ready for that time that you CAN NOT get any closer. It never hurts to be ready!

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Adam

[208muley]

So what is the real difference in focal plane. I know that Sfp means the reticle doesn't move when power changes. Ffp magnifys the reticle with the power change... What I don't know is what the pros and cons are for both.

[AverageJoe]

If you are not ranging with the reticle there is no need for a FFP. If you dial turrets to get your yardage second plane scopes are fine. Some will say the point of impact changes but on a good scope it doesnt.

[Big Browns]

With SFP you have to shoot using whatever magnification you sighted the gun with. Usually max power. If you shoot on half power your point of impact will be different.

 

FFP the scope's magnification can be on any power and the point of impact will remain the same.

 

Most people shoot with the scope on full power, so it usually doesn't matter. The probem is in the low light or close shot situations when having the gun on a lower magnification would be best! At some low light situations you will not have enough light to see using max magnification. That's when a FFP would be a huge benefit. FFP scopes are usually about $100-200 more for the same model.

 

Adam

[HuntHarder]

Not entirely true on SFP Vs FFP.

SFP- If you are using the reticle for bullet drop (i.e. ballistic plex, TDS plex) or using the MOA on the windage for holding against the wind, you will need to be on max power for the bullet drops/ wind adjustment to be accurate. If you use a turret and just use the crosshairs, FFP and SFP have no difference. I have SFP with a Kenton turret for both windage and elevation. This makes FFP irrelevant.

 

FFP- Great for rangefinding, using ballistic drop lines within scope and using MOA wind drift dashes to hold for wind. Hope this helps.

 

Willhunt4coues- have you really had to use 40MOA to get a gun zeroed? I would have sent that thing back unless you are zeroing at 1200 yards. My rifle drops 25 MOA at 1k with a 200 yard zero. 70 Moa IMO is not needed unless you plan on shooting 1500 yards. I have seen your boy shoot, so I guess he might be the one who needs 70 MOA, still amazed at how good he is.

[208muley]

Great info amigos! thanks Eric

[willhunt4coues]

HuntHarder Take your scope right now at zero and dial DOWN (not up) and see how many MOA you used to zero your gun at 100 yards. MOST scopes I just mounted 1 nightforce on a 20 MOA base, 1 Sightron on a 20 moa base, and 1 IOR valdada on a 20 moa base. Every single one is zeroed now I can travel down with the turrets and all are within 20 to 30 moa to BOTTOM OUT THE TURRET.

 

So back to what I was explaining you will ALWAYS use at least 20 moa (if when you get your scope completely bottom out the turret) you will see it takes around 20 to 40 moa JUST TO ZERO AT 100 YARDS (that is 20 moa to zero if you have a 20 moa base, and 40 moa to zero if you have a 0 moa base). So in reality lets say the scope has 50 moa TOTAL adjustment (you can check this when you get the scope just bottom out the turret and start dialing up to see its FULL range) then you have a 20 moa base. You take the gun out to sight it in and use 20 moa to zero it well now you will have only 30 moa left to travel UP for elevation shot which will get you 1000 yards but most just getting started don't know to get a scope with a lot of adjustments. Now lets go back and say that same 50 moa scope has a 0 moa base you will now use 30 to 40 moa to zero leaving you with only 20 to 10 moa of adjustments.

 

Hutharder try your scope you will be surprised. The nightforce I just installed used 26 moa to zero at 100 yards, My IOR used 20 moa (if I got a 40 moa base I would be able to get FULL RANGE OF ADJUSTMENTS out of my scope 70 moa), sightron used 30 moa but still has 75 moa left and all of these have 20 moa bases take away that 20 moa base and you will have to add 20 moa to every scope. That is why they MAKE bases with 10,15,20,30,40 moa cants so you can use your scope FULL POTENTIAL.

[HuntHarder]

Great write up Willhunt4coues. I completely agree with you. I misunderstood when you said used up 40moa to get gun zeroed. I thought you meant the gun was shooting 40 moa off from mounting the scope. You mean 40 Moa of the total adjustment within the scope. I get what you are saying now. My scope only has 45 moa adjustment and I installed a 20 moa base so I am able to shoot further. My scope bottoms out @ 1175 yards with the 20 moa base, so In theory, I used up 33 of my 65 possible MOA to sight in. Makes sense.