Elkaddict Report post Posted October 23, 2014 I don't believe there were very many elk in unit 10 in the early 70's. Maybe someone with a better memory than mine will enlighten us. Seems like about that time it was big news elk were as far west as pumpkin center, which is just west of Kendrick Mtn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 300ultramag. Report post Posted October 23, 2014 how about the gizzard shad in roosevelt? how is that working out? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Str8Shot Report post Posted October 23, 2014 how about the gizzard shad in roosevelt? how is that working out? We will see in a couple years when those 500,000 Florida strain Large mouth Bass start hitting the 10 lb range as they have been used in other hatcheries in the country to take care of those dang gizzard shad .... though in all the years fishing that lake and casting to catch regular shad for bait, when with kids and family, I have only seen one and it was about dead ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Explorer Report post Posted October 24, 2014 Unit 10 has been a disaster for years. Anybody who puts in and wants a quality hunt is delusional. You can't even hunt the early archery deer hunt there without running into herds of guide grunts looking for elk. What a shame. Back in the 90's it was an amazing place to hunt elk. I will be putting my dad in for a champ tag there though. He only has to compete with muzzy hunters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted October 24, 2014 "If you have been hunting elk in Az for the last 30 years, you've got a great idea of how full-of-crap the G&Flakes are with their stats!" I shot my first bull in what now is unit 27 in 1955. That will be sixty years ago next September (to save you the math) and I can say that our state's elk have significantly increased in quantity and trophy quality over those six decades BECAUSE of the Arizona Game and Fish Department. Bill Quimby 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seldom Drawn Report post Posted October 25, 2014 How many of you winners go to the meetings?in Flag there might be a whole 3-4 hunters. not that it matters they have already usually have made there minds up what they are going to do. Hunting has changed with the side by sides and quads you road hunters have a hard time now that they have figured you out.I have hunted elk since 1977 I can still find big elk,deer and antelope it just takes some boot leather I agree they have way to many tags for everything but look at 5bn antelope I spent 3-4 days scouting and found 3 goats bigger then 84 inches how many pics did you see that were bigger then 82 inches with all the guides and outfitters looking, it's getting harder it's now a hunt. it's not as easy as it once was,get out of your toys and get back to the basics unit 10 has way to many tags but still has some giants. with all the money people will pay the outfitters are killing all the big animals, go hunt the strip for deer and outfitter might have one hunter in camp but might have 9 trucks in camp spot lighting, glassing or driving around looking all talking on radio's how does anything have a chance how can they make any money when they ask $10,000 dollars and have 10 helpers in camp. The weekend warrior is a thing of the past put you time in or quit bitching.Look at HPO outfitters they took a raffle tag hunter out for free 5 or 6 guides on a bull us locals have tried to kill for years, he was way past his prime and in my mind didn't deserve to die with a posse after him so, is Game and fish at fault solely or are we all to blame as well?, 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lonne Report post Posted October 25, 2014 Interesting. I just hunted Unit 10 for the first time. Absolutely beautiful! It was a cow tag hunt. We were following a herd before the hunt and saw them on a few occasions with a herd bull, but they quickly disappeared on the hunt and we couldn't connect. I was thinking cow hunt, should be easy, but wow was suprised how hard of a hunt it was. We spotted several bulls, along with several mule deer bucks and does, and at least two different herds of javelina. I figured typical hunt. You spot everything you're hunting for, and the cow elks know they are being hunted. Spotted some cows bedded down, but realized definitely need to improve my glassing on bedded down animals. (I tell myself that every year!) I was really wishing I had a bull tag. I'm not even a random sample, just one group of four hunters. But seems in line with what we saw in the grand scheme of this recommendation. Of course, much I don't know, so I won't draw conclusions without facts and history, which I'm sure alot more of you guys could offer up. If this is truly the case or not. Despite not filling my tag, which was a huge goal of mine and I didn't think I'd come home empty handed, nor did any of the guys I was with, we had a great time spotting all the game. We worked VERY hard but just weren't lucky. Lonne Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lonne Report post Posted October 25, 2014 I guess I would ultimately say more than 3 of us (including me and many others) need to show up at the meeting to help influence if this is would help make the in best decision. The problem with that in today's world is how realistic is it that we could actually show up with our day jobs and other commitments? Are there other more convenient ways we could help all work together and influence, with our day jobs and family commitments which we are simply overlooking? We often jump on Game and Fish, but at the end of the day, I fear the alternative and they're doing a decent job. Are they perfect? Of course not, but with hunter input from everyone maybe they can get closer. Survey wise. 3 might show up and indicate they agree they saw all bulls and now cows, or exact opposite. Maybe it holds alot of weight, maybe it does not (I'm not sure without an expert or attendee actually filling in here). Or all 800 tag holders might indicate what actually happened by filling out their surveys which Game and Fish sends out. How many actually are filling out actual surveys? Lonne Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Presmyk Report post Posted October 28, 2014 All about that $$$$$ with g&f Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted November 22, 2014 I agree with Bill Quimby that elk antler quality has definitely improved over the last 40 years. AGFD must be given good credit for that fact. As far as unit #27 though, the herd size peaked about 1999 and is now about -50% of that 1999 peak, unfortunately. Chalk that up to the wolf reintroduction program, and excessive cow hunting permits being granted. The most frustrating to me is the cow hunting permits granted for the month of August. Many cows have calves not much more than a month old in August and when mama is killed, the calf survival rate due to predators is negatively affected.......exponentially for the motherless calf! I have been encouraging AGFD for years to totally eliminate August cow hunting privileges, and also reduce the cow permits overall. I'm guessing my quacking is falling on deaf ears due to their strong motivation to optimize hunter opportunities.........as well as tag revenues! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sneaker Report post Posted December 2, 2014 As an update, here are the recommendations. http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/documents/huntRecommend/2014Guidelines/S-3%20Attachment%20Commission%20Orders%2011-21-2014.pdf They added 125 Muzzeloader Bull tags and 5 CHAMP tags for Unit 10. For those that like to count, 915 Bull and Champ tags in 2014, 1,045 proposed Bull and Champ tags in 2015. 130 additional tags, 14.21% increase in bull tags. Harvest rate on the late muzzy in 2013 was just over 50%. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
couesmagnet Report post Posted December 3, 2014 The only reason the white mountain is so good is because of the limited number of tags they make available on an annual basis. Whether they have cow tags, rag horn, or cow tags makes no diff. It has to so with the overall numbers of tag issued regardless of antler size or sex. If they had the same amount of bull or cow tags per 1000 elk that state land has in any unit in az , it wouldn't be any better. If we want something like they have then we need to cut every units elk tags by 50 percent. I'm a fan of the game and fish but as of lately for some reason there never enough tags issued and more is always better. I wish they would raise the price of all tags and cut the numbers of tags down at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues79 Report post Posted December 3, 2014 The only reason the white mountain is so good is because of the limited number of tags they make available on an annual basis. Whether they have cow tags, rag horn, or cow tags makes no diff. It has to so with the overall numbers of tag issued regardless of antler size or sex. If they had the same amount of bull or cow tags per 1000 elk that state land has in any unit in az , it wouldn't be any better. If we want something like they have then we need to cut every units elk tags by 50 percent. I'm a fan of the game and fish but as of lately for some reason there never enough tags issued and more is always better. I wish they would raise the price of all tags and cut the numbers of tags down at the same time. The number of tags in the white mountains has increased. Look at 27 this year.... They added 100 bull tags to the late hunt, which was already high at 400. The quality of bulls being taken in the near years to come is going to go downward. The number of animals reaching maturity are simply going to decline. Plain and simple. Look at the 22 units as an example.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
couesmagnet Report post Posted December 3, 2014 Sorry 79 I should have been more specific. I meant the white mountain tribe tags. Not the white mountains. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5guyshunting Report post Posted December 3, 2014 The bulls are there , just gotta find them. Check my boquillas post. I thought there would be more posts for unit 10 elk? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
