Returning tag for reinstatement of bonus points

[trphyhntr]

im glad im just young enough to remember when in America, you made a decision you had to stick with it. i say you get a tag, thats the tag you get. no accountability in anything. how about if you cant hunt dont put in.

[trphyhntr]

actually wait lol. so these cocky bastards that cant even organize one draw properly are going to be able to take back your tag and give it to someone else in a reasonable about of time before the hunts start? lmfao, ya thats going to go over like a lead balloon.

[ready2hunt]

 

Okay so let me get this straight- someone chime in and correct me on these 2 hypotheticals.....

 

I can put in for a BS hunt ever year (instead of just buying the bonus point) lets say for cow elk that has a high draw rate. If I get drawn (which is likely to happen) I can return my tag up to 24hrs prior to the hunt beginning and not only get my points back BUT ALSO get an additional bonus point??? Am I reading that right?

 

Another example-

 

My father has 24 antelope bonus points. Since he is has a high chance of getting drawn he can put in (next year) do the same as mentioned above and get 2 bonus points in one year. Thus staying 2x ahead of the game keeping tags out of reach for other people?

 

I can only assume the tag you return will go to NO ONE ELSE. Not that we do this but that is pretty F----ed up for such a limited amount of tags.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

That's incorrect. First off it wouldn't make sense to put in for a cow tag just to give it back. But if you did it will just be like you never got drawn and got a bonus point. No extra points or anything. If you had 6 when you put in and draw and give it back you will have 7 the next year like you never drew. Tags that are given back go to the next guy in line so there are no extra tags given to anyone.

 

Thanks Maximus and Bonecollector777 at least there are some balance to this.

 

I like the idea of the tag going to the NEXT applicant in line. I wonder how that will work though. If they have up to 24hours prior to the hunt does G&F just try calling and calling until someone picks up even days into the hunt? I hope there is some clarification on this.

[azelkhunter2]

I will give a very quick breakdown of the system. PLEASE PLEASE know this is only a small portion of the whole system. It was supposed to be in place for this draw. When the online draw went live there was supposed to be a box you checked if you wanted to have the option of tag surrender. The cost was 5.00 dollars... If you did not want to have the option you were not charged the 5.00 fee. Apx 3 weeks ago G&F came to the conclusion that they could not track who wanted the option. They hope to have it in place it time for the deer draw. ......Now you can use the surrender program ONE TIME per species before you have to use your tag. For example.....My wife and son put in for bull elk they draw the tag, my son keeps the tag my wife turns hers in, my wife keeps her points AND gets the point for 2016, the G&F dept keeps her 135.00 tag fee....Now next yr my wife and son put in for elk, they draw the tag, she wants to turn her tag in again.....She can turn her tag in BUT SHE CANT KEEP HER POINTS !!!!. It does not matter if she uses her tag or turns it in she looses her points. Once you use your points the system starts over. If anyone has any other questions please call me. Dave 602-228-1719

[azelkhunter2]

Depending on the tag and how long it is turned in before the hunt the dept will call the next person in line to see if they want the tag...

[Heat]

I see the benefits but I totally agree with you guys on limiting it. Something along the lines of one option per species per decade or something similar. This would be ripe for abuse without controls and I would not be supportive of something like that. If they can figure out a way for a one shot deal along some lines, I would be ok with it. The problem with the way it is worded there without any control is the idiots with more money than brains will do exactly what you guys are describing. What is an extra $135 bucks a year for a guy who buys a new $50,000 truck every year? I'm sure we all know lots of guys like that!

 

If the Department can make money selling the same tag twice its a win/win for them! I can see why they would be OK with this, as much of an administrative nightmare this is going to be. Heck they can't even run a normal draw and issue tags outright without major screw-ups! What makes anyone believe they can pull off a refund scam too and still get it all right?

[bonecollector777]

I will give a very quick breakdown of the system. PLEASE PLEASE know this is only a small portion of the whole system. It was supposed to be in place for this draw. When the online draw went live there was supposed to be a box you checked if you wanted to have the option of tag surrender. The cost was 5.00 dollars... If you did not want to have the option you were not charged the 5.00 fee. Apx 3 weeks ago G&F came to the conclusion that they could not track who wanted the option. They hope to have it in place it time for the deer draw. ......Now you can use the surrender program ONE TIME per species before you have to use your tag. For example.....My wife and son put in for bull elk they draw the tag, my son keeps the tag my wife turns hers in, my wife keeps her points AND gets the point for 2016, the G&F dept keeps her 135.00 tag fee....Now next yr my wife and son put in for elk, they draw the tag, she wants to turn her tag in again.....She can turn her tag in BUT SHE CANT KEEP HER POINTS !!!!. It does not matter if she uses her tag or turns it in she looses her points. Once you use your points the system starts over. If anyone has any other questions please call me. Dave 602-228-1719

So they are doing exactly the one thing we don't want. Letting people put in with people and allowing one of them to keep it and one to give it back. That right there is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Guys are gonna have grandma, grandpa, little cousin jonny, little susy and whoever else who doesn't hunt build up points. Get drawn with grandma, grandma gives back her tag you put in with her again until you both draw again. All the while little susy and Jonny are building points. Once you're done using grandma for the two tags you start her over and start using Jonny for two tags start him over and move to susy for two tags. Getting tags that require high points every couple years. Wtf is happening with this department? I understand all they care about is money but geeze the line has to be drawn somewhere.

[bonecollector777]

All they need to do is require everyone on the same app to surrender the tag if anyone on the app wants to return the tag. That would cut out any possible abuse of the system. And keep the deal where you only can give back the tag once before having to use it or lose your points.

[yotebuster]

Anybody wanna sell me some points?!? 😕

[bonecollector777]

Anybody wanna sell me some points?!? 😕

And then theres that. Pay me a couple hundred bucks and you can put in with me and I'll just get my points back. The possibilities are endless!

[azelkhunter2]

Guys....The parameters have been decided long ago....The meetings took place over the last two yrs. The dept went with this and there is no going back. You can either beat a dead horse again and again or work within the system in place. Only a small handful of people even bothered to show at any of the meetings and voice their concerns.....

[Str8Shot]

I agree with Bonecollector ... It is Ripe for abuse the way they have it worded .. There are already people who abuse the tag transfer for Kids that put Grams and gramps and non hunting spouses in to effectively increase the chances for drawing a tag then transferring to a minor ... IMO even that should be a one time per species per minor child.

 

Not to mention up to 24 hours before the hunt starts ... It should be at least 2 weeks prior to the hunt and G&F should make the tag available First come first serve. With a 24 hour window I doubt they have any intention to offer the tag to another unsuccessful applicant.

[gotcoues]

I for one love the idea, but I'm very interested in the multiple friends or family member points build up "scheme". I have a lot of antelope points and I'm guaranteed a few archery hunts and very close to pick of the liter archery if that is in fact what I choose. I'm also pretty much guaranteed a Utah goat tag at this point. To top this off, family is top priority and if they draw, I want to give their hunt maximum attention to maximize the experience for them. With that being said, in a pinch, I would like to be able to give a hard to get tag back if it fell on a year where we just flat out got too lucky and drew too many tags. It hasn't happened yet, but it's a pretty scary endeavor to know it's coming and I could be stuck with a tag and not be able to enjoy a hunt I've waited A LONG LONG TIME FOR. It's much easier for me to give it back, then say "son, I know you drew that tag, but Dad finally drew this and your not going hunting. Sorry Bud"

 

This is a no brainer idea to me, but....... I would like to see some thought put into the process to prevent obvious abuse.

[Heat]

Maybe I missed the memo or the email but I never got a chance to give any comment on this topic.

[Str8Shot]

Maybe I missed the memo or the email but I never got a chance to give any comment on this topic.

There was not that much communication on it or how the process would work ... A couple years ago when they were talking about creating the portal system , they were talking about and announced the possibility of making an account upgrade that would cost a little each month that would potentially allow those upgraded members to have a tag surrender option ... There was a post on here with a lot of questions and concerns , since then I do not recall seeing it in G&F news or as a bullet point for any of the meetings ( I could be wrong ) I think those that helped with the structuring see the loop holes and are chomping on the bit to abuse them.