Returning tag for reinstatement of bonus points

[Redman]

 

I think its funny how far some of you can stretch your imaginations. Its if, if, if, if. Well if a queen had balls shed be a king. Like i said earlier, there will always, always be shady people who will work any system put in place.

It is not a stretch of the imagination .. it is knowing how people already use the system and how $$$$ for a lot is not an issue when it comes to hunting ... With 3 willing non hunting relatives or buddies , and $150 extra spent a year ... within 4 or 5 years you can have you a pretty reliable BP pool so you are never starting below 4 or 5 BP's

 

 

 

finally those little turds of mine are going to do something for me!!! if only I had more than two kids...

[bonecollector777]

A little more info....There was NO secret agenda by anyone....If my notes are complete there where 9 different meetings held all over the state, If you receive the Game & fish news letter by e- mail you did then receive notification on several different occasions, In addition the old G&F web page had it posted for several months and it was discussed at several commissioners meetings if you are a member of any of the local wildlife org's it was discussed at great length at their meetings as G&F personal we at the meetings just to talk about it. As far as the many many ways to game the system EVERYONE of them were discussed at every meeting till you wanted to slam your head in the door!!!!. The Dept decided after a GREAT DEAL of input that there was no one way that was fair to every applicant in all scenarios so we ended up with this option. You can sit and complain that it's not fair and what if it till the cows come home it won't change a thing.....

Man people at those meetings must be some of dumbest people out there or they all were the people planning on abusing the system if NOONE brought up the obvious fact that the way are doing it is gonna be abused like crazy. It took me about 5 seconds to figure that out when I read it. So if all these so called meetings that everyone knew about actually happened and Noone could see that our department and attendees are dumber than a box of rocks. But in the end it's AZGFD doing what they do best. Making that green. Nearly everyone is gonna select that box and dish out 5 bucks. Times that by 100,000+ people plus all the new licenses being bought by people for their non hunting family plus 13 dollar app fee plus $135 tag fee and we're talking millions of dollars of extra money a year. It's brilliant on their part m actually but screws the average Hunter. Excuse me now I need to call up some relatives and get me some ss numbers. I've got BB point pools to build! Heck I might take it to the next level and go Democrat style and start using dead people's ss#'s to really boost my odds. If you can't beat em join em huh?

[azelkhunter2]

BC.....Like I said EVERYONE of the ways to game the system was brought up time and time again....In the end the dept felt the only way to put the system in place and not punish the guy who legitimately needs to turn in a tag was to put this version in place....We ALL know how to game the system....And to your statement that the attendees at the meetings were dumb as a box of rocks....Their were several very respected members of this site that attended several of the meetings and voiced their concerns VERY loudly....You obviously we're not one of them, A great deal of time and energy by a lot of people on this site and the hunting community went into trying to make sure that safeguards were put in place, in the end it did not happen but it was not for lack of effort....

[5guyshunting]

 

I think its funny how far some of you can stretch your imaginations. Its if, if, if, if. Well if a queen had balls shed be a king. Like i said earlier, there will always, always be shady people who will work any system put in place.

 

It is not a stretch of the imagination .. it is knowing how people already use the system and how $$$$ for a lot is not an issue when it comes to hunting ... With 3 willing non hunting relatives or buddies , and $150 extra spent a year ... within 4 or 5 years you can have you a pretty reliable BP pool so you are never starting below 4 or 5 BP's

I get your point, but that scenario would be a pain in the butt. I would just go buy antlers or beef, and sell my B.P. to TROPHYHUNTER.

[el diablo]

 

 

I think its funny how far some of you can stretch your imaginations. Its if, if, if, if. Well if a queen had balls shed be a king. Like i said earlier, there will always, always be shady people who will work any system put in place.

democrat spotted

Um, no you couldnt be any farther off. im about as right as it gets.

[bonecollector777]

BC.....Like I said EVERYONE of the ways to game the system was brought up time and time again....In the end the dept felt the only way to put the system in place and not punish the guy who legitimately needs to turn in a tag was to put this version in place....We ALL know how to game the system....And to your statement that the attendees at the meetings were dumb as a box of rocks....Their were several very respected members of this site that attended several of the meetings and voiced their concerns VERY loudly....You obviously we're not one of them, A great deal of time and energy by a lot of people on this site and the hunting community went into trying to make sure that safeguards were put in place, in the end it did not happen but it was not for lack of effort....

Now the truth is starting to show here. If the case was that there were people there saying it was a bad idea and giving ideas of how to put safeguards into place to make it fair and the department ignored them and did what they were gonna do anyway that makes sense. Because that's what they always do! AZGFD sees one thing and it's money and they don't care how they get there. Glad you attended the meetings and wasted your time though. Like every meeting I've ever heard of anyone going to and giving their advice. Once azgfd dreams it up its happening however they want and how they get the most money. Thanks for trying though.

[Guest 300ultramag.]

man that's alot of $5.00. I hope yall abuse the heck out of it and stretch that $5.00 to its max!!! Enjoy

[azelkhunter2]

BC....As of 2015 there are 41 states that have some type of tag surrender program in place. Some better then others. We are way behind the times when it comes to the services offered to the outdoor community. Every state has a system that can be worked in one way or another, Are current system can be worked in many different way's. I know you have a great dislike / hatred for the dept. I don't always agree with what/why/how they do things but I / we as hunters don't have any other choice so I and many others work are butt off to try and steer the department in the right direction and help them on their decision making. I do agree this is for the most part a money grab....But I also know the dept needs the funds....If the money's are spent in the right place I'm ok with the program....But only time will tell....

[AZ8]

On July 22, 2015 I started a thread about the comment period for this topic and also the membership idea.

 

It got little traffic.

 

A few people posting in this thread also replied in the other thread.

 

http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/59135-surrender-your-tag-heres-your-chance/

[trphyhntr]

.But I also know the dept needs the funds.

but i dont undertand. how and why do they need it? they should be swimming in money

[5guyshunting]

 

 

.But I also know the dept needs the funds.

 

but i dont undertand. how and why do they need it? they should be swimming in money

I had to ...................

[trphyhntr]

thats what i picture when i think about a family of 4 putting in for hunts with a $13 app fee. but thats another story

[Str8Shot]

BC....As of 2015 there are 41 states that have some type of tag surrender program in place. Some better then others. We are way behind the times when it comes to the services offered to the outdoor community. Every state has a system that can be worked in one way or another, Are current system can be worked in many different way's. I know you have a great dislike / hatred for the dept. I don't always agree with what/why/how they do things but I / we as hunters don't have any other choice so I and many others work are butt off to try and steer the department in the right direction and help them on their decision making. I do agree this is for the most part a money grab....But I also know the dept needs the funds....If the money's are spent in the right place I'm ok with the program....But only time will tell....

Please explain explain the dates of all these meetings ... The 2014 was about Portal and Bundling of services one being Tag surrender ... The minutes should list all the people who spoke on the issue including the public but I see nothing there .. The move was to set a plan for Tag Surrender by Jan 2015 to add to article 1 and develop via the portal MEMBERSHIP Multi Tiered Services ... Jan. 2015 Spoke of the Outreach ... Other than the 1 News report which was buried on the old G&F site when most were already using the new Portal site ( were it would be very easy to add an unavoidable graphic and link to such changes and outcry for public comment) I have searched all PDFs of Agendas and Minutes for 2014 and 2015 and I seen very little mentioned beyond The time line when such a change could be made to the Portal and active... In July 2015 It was still spoken of as a Membership Tiered Service of Portal but that would not seem the case if it is being charged per app per applicant ...IMO That alone would be enough of a change to re discuss the direction of Tag surrender. Remember the first discussion was " Would you be willing to pay a Monthly or Annual membership for the Portal and in exchange get these possible benefits" when did that change because I do not see it in print from the July 2015 link on the Article 1 addition.

 

I know very few people over all the years that said man if I could just trade in my tag and get my points back and most of the time it was do to a family emergency or injury ( which is something that can be supported by medical documentation , just like the guys who what to be able to get a champ license. Surrendering 24 hours prior Will be abused by the Big Trophy Guys who are not seeing what they want that close to the start ... I could see a proven Medical emergency being good reason but something tells me that will be less the case. For group applications Don't allow it and create a New group or Family Application that if one tag is surrendered all are and allow it. Allowing for Group applications with the surrender will create BP pools and in 5 years 2 person applications with one surrendering will become the Norm IMO .... People will always look at way to abuse a system but that does not mean the system should not limit how many ways it can be abused ...

 

OH and IMO surrendering a tag Because the family as a whole got drawn for too many tags is a piss poor excuse and IMO up to the individual to work around, it was his or her choice to put in so many individual applications versus a group app in the first place, one of the downfalls we should all be so lucky to deal with once in a while.

 

p.s. Arizona is Unlike every other state when it comes to Hunting or Fishing ...

[pwrguy]

i love the idea, but potential for abuse seems high after reading the comments. This will most definitely increase the number of non-hunters applying for tags, which should translate to lower draw odds?

[Str8Shot]

They better get ready for More Hunter' Safety Field Days ... Betting will be a lot of uninterested wives and kiddos taking classes just to get that extra point .

 

 

p.s. I admit I may have given G&F too much credit in the previous thread thinking they would see the loopholes and come up with a way that limited abuse, may have to take my own advice and start looking to hunt out of state