ML HELP NEEDED PLEASE

[Flatlander]

Ok, I have been trying not to hyper-ventilate all week long and I think I am about to have an anxiety attack.

 

Last week I slipped out to Rio Salado for some practice with the muzzleloader in preparation for my upcoming antelope hunt. I had a good group at 100 yds and moved out to 200 and was having trouble getting the hold points for my Leupold Ultimate Slam to line up at that range so I decided to re zero with a 150 grain load instead of the 100 grains I had been shooting. I went through the normal process and after a few shots I lost the ability to shoot any kind of group. I was getting frustrated and decided to hang it up for the day, and come back and work on it when I was fresh.

 

Fast forward one week to this morning. I was out at Rio Salado thinking positive thoughts aout how I was going to be able to get dialed in and be in good shape. I brought lots of powder and sabot's and was ready for the long haul.

 

I started at 100 yards, the first shot was 6 inches high of the X. The barrel was clean and I have learned that a fouling shot is a must with my CVA Magbolt 150. Second shot was 6 inches right of the X. I never hit the paper again at 100 yds. I was frustarted and worried that might be the problem, I switched over to my .300 win mag and shot a 1-1/2" group with very little effort.

 

So I moved it into 25 yards. First shot was right 6"+, second shot was low and left, third shot was right, fourth shot was high, fifth shot was low. There was literally 0 pattern and after 2-1/2 hours I put the ML away and took out my frustration on the 300 yd plate with my Win Mag. I never missed. The muzzleloader I am shooting has always been a tack driver and shot well with these same loads earlier in the summer. Today was the third time I shot this load. I think that it must be a problem with the bases/rings/scope due to the complete randomness of the shots, could I be wrong? It doesn't seem like anything in the load could have that drastic of an effect could it?

 

This is my second year muzzleloader hunting, I am self taught and almost everything I have learned has been from youtube, so if any of you guys who have been doing it longer have good advice I am all ears. Here is my load:

 

3 - 50 gr Triple 7 Pellets

Hornady 250 grain SST Sabot

Winchester 209 shotshell primers

 

Rifle: CVA MAgbolt 150

 

I run a dry swab after every shot, a wet swab with a water soluble solvent every third shot or so, and clean with a copper brush every 10 shots. I have never cleaned the breach because this model is a giant pain in the butt to get the bolt out of. I do not have any problems with primers feeding in to the breech. My plan was to soak it with a solvent after the hunt and work to get the breech out and cleaned up.

 

I have had an occasional hang fire that requires a second primer, or sometimes there is a slight hangfire and then ignition with significantly reduced recoil and less smoke, leading me to believe that perhaps not all the powder is burning. This is very rare and I would say in 100 or so round is have shot this summer I have had maybe two hangfires that required a second primer and two delayed ignition type events.

 

Even though I do think I need to change primers, I have a hard time believing that could be leading to the amount of incosistency I am seeing even at close range.

 

I changed scopes this summer after my cheap o Simmons 2x failed during my HAM hunt (reticle broke loose). I am now shooting a Leupold Ultimate Slam SABR. I would be very surprised if the problem was in the scope itself, instead I am more inclined to believe it is a rings and bases issue. My thoughts are to have it remounted (I did it the first time), get some new primers and give it another run next Saturday. But with only 3 weeks until my hunt and some desperately needed scouting still on the agenda I am getting very short on time. Obviously if I don't get the problem corrected I can axe the scouting and work on the gun, because without that I have nothing. I do not have another muzzleloader nor do I have access to another so I am in a bit of a bad spot. Even if I scrapped the whole rig and bought a new gun it doesn't leave a lot of time for getting dialed in.

 

Ok, sorry for the LONG thread, I am starting to freak out a little bit.

 

 

150 grains

[DesertBull]

If your gun still has the open sights try shooting with those. If you at least get a group you know it's the scope.

 

Personally have never been a fan of the 150 grain loads. 100 grain has always been better for me.

[pwrguy]

Hard to imagine anything shooting that bad, that leaves you, the scope, or the scope mounting. Good luck on your upcoming hunt, hope you get it worked out.

[AverageJoe]

Did you go back to 100gn loads instead of 150 gn? Try that and see if the problem is the extra pellet as that could be the problem. I used to only shoot 100 gns because of the same issue. 100 gns was plenty to drop a cow elk at 200 yds. I have had sketchy accuracy with 150 gns and have heard the same from others.

[DesertBull]

Worse case run up to Walmart and get a cheapy scope. See if you can hold a group with it. They will take it back if you have the receipt.

[Will K]

Try another powder. I had no consistency with that powder.

 

Will

[cohofishing]

Getting ready for a hunt myself. Found that when I took off my scope for a Colorado hunt, the mount screws were loose. Maybe yours too? I also found that triple 7 powder, both loose and pellets,was all over the place. Not sure if it is because it is a dirty powder and I had to clean the gun in between shots. Tried to do it the same every time but who knows? Switched to Buckhorn209 and have had better results. A lot cleaner powder. If you do switch, make sure you clean with a solvent. It is not the same as regular black powder. They have a good website.

 

Good luck

Brent

[ctracingraptor]

Ive been shooting 250grain shockwave sabots with 150 triple 7 with excellent success

[idgaf]

It's sounds like something mechanical, I would check all of fittings to make sure they're tight before changing anything.

[singleshot]

CVA firebolt magnum, 50 grain hodgdon pellets. Tried all kinds of powders bullets etc. This shoots the best.

 

 

[BRYCE CANYON]

Having spent many hours and hundreds of dollars developing loads, I feel your pain.

 

It sounds like a scope/mount problem. Buy a Wheeler F.A.T. Wrench if you don't already have one and make sure your screws are all torqued the same. There is something about the recoil of a muzzleloader that finds that weak screws and wiggles it loose.

 

I personally use Leupold "front" scope rings on the front and back of my scope because the traditional Leupold "back" style rings with windage adjustments just don't hold up to a muzzleloaders recoil. Some guns this will work on and some it won't.

 

I have always had great luck with 300 grain Hornady XTP .45 bullets in my .50 cal gun with 100 grains of T7 pellets. I am a big believer that more powder is not always better, especially with heavier bullets. With that said I am currently developing a new load with 100 grains of Blackhorn Powder and 195 grain .40 cal. Precision Rifles Dead Center bullets in a double sabot. I hate to admit that I am on the Blackorn band wagon but its good stuff and you want every bit of technological advantage on your side.

 

I will be down there Monday and can drop off some XTPs, some Blackhorn and some 300 grain Barnes if you want to give them a try.

[BRYCE CANYON]

 

 

 

 

[lionhunter]

Flatlander, I hope you get it figured out, but if not you are welcome to shoot my gun on your hunt as soon as I am done... I am really thinking about using a bow anyway... keep in touch.. the 150 gr of triple 7 behind 300 gr sst ml sabot works well for me...

whitey

[bowhnt]

I have a T/C Pro Hunter you are welcome to try. shoots 110 grns of Blackhorn 209 & Barnes 250grn T-EZ FB (blue sabot) bullets. topped with Leupold 4x12 scope w/bullet turret out to 300yrds. I have no plan for this rifle until end of September. it will be used as a backup rifle for my daughters muzzleloader bull hunt.

[Havasuhunter]

I'm betting you bullet choice with your barrels rate of twist just doesn't like the higher speed of the 150 grain load. Go to loose powder and work the load up until you reach maximum safe powder charge while retaining accuracy.