application number drop article

[.270]

article in the republic this morning.

 

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2011/08/06/20110806arizona-hunting-applications-down.html

 

what are your opinions? why do you feel this trend is happening? i think the azgfd is worried because of the loss of the $5 app fee. Lark.

[4Falls]

I think the drop has alot to do with the economy, especially when it comes to tags such as once in a life time type tags like buffalo and bighorn. And for less popular tags such as spring bear and some of the javelina hunts. When they eventually do go back to an online application process I think youll see the application numbers start to trend upwards again.

[motoxno53]

I agree the drop has a lot to do with the economy. I like that this article points out that the G&F's approach "just pump more tags out" does not mean that more people putting in. This is the same mentality the reset of our government is using and all that does is cause more debt(in our case less animals, too many hunters running animals ragged) and in reality it does not mean more people will hunt, only that the dedicated hunters will get more opportunity. We need to focus on better quality hunts; bigger population, older age class, less hunts which mean deer have time to rest and calm down and lastly putting the draw back online will allow people to put in for a tag and pay for it over time rather then one lump sum. I also believe we need an antler restriction. Anyway this is just my .02 cents.

 

Have a great weekend all!

[Tines]

Is there a perfect answer to this question. I haven't found it (and neither have they, obviously). But I think it's many factors. The economy, paper applications, supply vs demand, "more opportunity", and what I think is A HUGE factor, kids who have too many distractions where they never have to leave their couch or the computer desk.

 

One thing in the departments control is the online applications deal. Really, how difficult is this????

 

Maybe if our society and school systems weren't so ignorant, they'd allow hunting as a recreation and conservation tool be taught in our schools. Instead it's quite the opposite being shoved down these students' throats. I heard one time that the best way to win an argument is to argue the other side first. Obviously they're not doing this.

 

Here's an idea (and I haven't seen any numbers to prove my theory). Turn these leftover permits into "non-permit" tags. This is assuming that there are some hunt #'s not selling all of its permits authorized (not sure if this has been the case). This would allow those of us who drew a deer tag to pick up a leftover, hunt both hunts, but only fill one of the tags. And when the second hunt is over, you MUST return the unfilled permit. Otherwise!!!

 

It really wouldn't be any more of a liability than the current mandatory harvest reports for non-permit tags. Just an idea to make sure they're maximizing their application fee potential.

[ThomC]

One of the reasons that less people put in for the draw is that if you want to hunt the south of I-10 whitetail hunts you can get them over the counter starting Monday. No need to fool around with the draw. And because the Federal government has allowed criminals from other countries access to these units of prime whitetail country lots of tags go unused.

[.270]

i think everything mentioned has something to do with it. there isn't a silver bullet. video games and apathy have a lot to do with it. economy definitely does. so does the stuff spewed by anti's. i think the azgfd has a lot to do with it. i know quite a few guys that apply for bighorn and maybe elk and don't even bother with deer or javelina or pronghorn and rely on other states for an opportunity to hunt. these little mini seasons they've come up with to create more opportunity seem to have had a negative affect. i think a big part of it is that kids have too much to do, also. all the sports at school and clubs and things take a lot of time. not a bad deal, but it does have an affect on hunting. you only have so much time. when i was in school, deer season always started on the last friday in october. that week our football games were always on thursday and there was never any school on the first day of deer season. deer season was something you just did. anyway, intersting comments so far. now lets hear some more. this is an interesting topic. Lark.

[scoutm]

I believe that in GF's quest for opportunity (code word for revenue) they underestimated or lost sight of quality. If the opportunity to hunt doesn't offer the chance at a quality experience why put in. I know that the added hunts, the increased number of hunters in the field, access issues and illegal activities have impacted my experience. In the last few years we've had problems with other hunters vandalizing our vehicle in an effort to claim an area for themselves, we've been pressured by illegal traffic, we've been persued by BP because we tripped ground sensor, we've seen deer numbers decline, we've had access cut off,we've seen the quality of deer deminish, we've found locked gates on public land, we've felt it necessary to leave areas because we've found bails of drugs. All have impacted my desire to hunt.

[SirRoyal]

Well lets see they have almost doubled tags fees , They refused to pay additional .50 cents per application to use the most reputable company SCI to handle online draws. Hmmm thats just a few major reasons.

[BeardownAZ]

I think alot of the ideas mentioned already about kids not getting involved are probably true. I would think the economy definetly would be a factor as well. But I dont think the G&F at the top care about why. They just know revenue is down and need lots more of it, especially now days. If you look at the number of hunters in some units and see how many deer you see or actually dont see, that should tell you more about there motivations towards more money. It may not be malicious intent but they need $$ to run and buy new trucks.

[Coach]

A lot of it has to do with how steeply they increased resident big game tag fees, while at the same time doubled, even tripled the number of tags allotted in most units. Effectively, they started charging way more money for far less desireable hunts.

 

Not that long ago, I could draw 24A December coues every couple of years for something like $27 (I don't remember all the actual tag prices) with around 350 tags total for that hunt. It was a quality hunt, for very little money. There were no October, November or early December tags for coues, if I remember correctly.

 

Now a December tag in 24A is almost impossible to draw (only 45 tags), but for twice the price, I can hunt the same area in October or November with either 500 or 550 other hunters. 1095 tags, nearly triple the number of hunters, same chunk of land, same quantity of deer, just at times when they are harder to find, competition is exacerbated, and I'm supposed to pay twice as much.

 

That's just one example, from one unit, for one species. I'm sure we could walk through them all - all units, all species, being managed by accountants and investors who have no understanding of the product or "commodity" they are attempting to manage - the way they see it through their eyes.

 

At this point, I'm thinking AZGFD doesn't have too many economics majors sitting in on their top-level meetings - or hunters, for that matter. It's ironic that several years back when they started this whole strategy to "increase opportunity" - read literally as "lower value product for a higher price", a whole bunch of us economically illiterate hunters told them it was a monumentally stupid idea - a "lose-lose" proposition. They snubbed their noses at us and pointed to bogus surveys, totally dismissing any input we provided - which of course, they had asked for, but had no intention of acknowledging in any serious way.

 

So now, applications are down which means revenues are down, and they're scratching their collective heads, wondering why. The irony is that this very situation was predicted, and communicated to AZGFD, years ago by the very sportsmen and women that they claim to be representing. They asked for our input, they got it, they ignored it - and now they wonder why support has dropped off.

[Outdoor Writer]

It's all Bush's fault.

[Millhouse]

Agree with economics...not just about affording the tag, but the gas for scouting trips, etc. Also agree with the supply and demand references. It seems that all the surveys suggest you have to be either a trophy hunter or have more opportunity to hunt. I think they have neglected to recognize the bulk of hunters who want a QUALITY EXPERIENCE rather than the other option. I would be interested to see if they look at their data to see which "group" they are losing. Plus, I think that those buying bonus points should still be included as an applicant, but cannot tell from the article if they are included in the numbers.

 

We all know this, but Arizona seems to have a changing demographics of citizens. Many without an outdoors experience or background.

 

I fear that this article suggests and on-line/credit card system may be on its way back. I don't mind on-line apps, but I do believe in the pay it forward/front the money system....rather than allowing people to use credit cards. JMHO.

[daryl_s]

If gas wasn't over $3/gallon I'd be out every weekend either scouting, camping, fishing, checking trail cams, etc. It's a 150 mile drive one way for me to get to the spot I like in my southern unit that I've hunted the last four years. I think $ is the biggest factor in apps being down, but I also agree with all of the previously mentioned factors.

 

As far as hunter recruitment compared to population growth goes, I know a lot of people who have mentioned having an interest in hunting but just don't know how or where to get started. A few years ago my brother in law started going hunting with us and absolutely loves it. Last year he got his first buck, a little forkie and you would've thought he shot a 110" buck, he was so stoked. That's when hunting is the most fun. I am taking a friend from work on his first anything hunt in early November for deer and he's so excited to go. It was sometime last year at work that he approached me with questions about hunting. He spent the next few hours asking me every question you could imagine about hunting. He mentioned that he had always wanted to go, but didn't know anybody that hunted or anything about it.

[.270]

i still kinda wonder how much impact the economy has. most guys i know, myself included, are gonna hunt a bunch, no matter what it costs. not rich guys, just guys that like to hunt. like to be out. i kinda doubt if a lotta those kinda guys are part of the bunch that aren't applying. i think where the big drop is, is in folks that really like to hunt, during the season, but don't dream about it all the time. folks that hunting and fishing and the outdoors doesn't play a real big part of their life. the way things are with the economy, permit prices, hunt quality, time, permit availability, negative experience with law enforcement, whatever you can think of, those things have driven some of those folks away. and i really agree that the azgfd has turned away from conservation and game management and turned into a financial management company where the game has been turned into livestock. too many accountants and not enough folks who are concerned about the health of the wildlife. some really good deer areas ain't worth much anymore, at least nothing like they were, because the elk have been allowed to take over. but they get a lot more for elk tags. in the late 70's and early 80's unit 1 had more big bucks than any place i'd ever seen. incredible amount of deer and really good bucks. now it's pathetic for deer, but there are lotta elk. i don't know the answer. but i don't like the way things are going. Lark.

[Tines]

I think this is pretty accurate. G and F really could care less about whether or not people can scout or not because fuel is $3.50 a gallon. It's application fees. And I agree that most hunters will at the very least apply for a BP. Sure, ever since that line was drawn south of I-10, purchasing a BP has become the norm. But that should actually MAKE the dept more money in the end.

 

 

i still kinda wonder how much impact the economy has. most guys i know, myself included, are gonna hunt a bunch, no matter what it costs. not rich guys, just guys that like to hunt. like to be out. i kinda doubt if a lotta those kinda guys are part of the bunch that aren't applying. i think where the big drop is, is in folks that really like to hunt, during the season, but don't dream about it all the time. folks that hunting and fishing and the outdoors doesn't play a real big part of their life. the way things are with the economy, permit prices, hunt quality, time, permit availability, negative experience with law enforcement, whatever you can think of, those things have driven some of those folks away. and i really agree that the azgfd has turned away from conservation and game management and turned into a financial management company where the game has been turned into livestock. too many accountants and not enough folks who are concerned about the health of the wildlife. some really good deer areas ain't worth much anymore, at least nothing like they were, because the elk have been allowed to take over. but they get a lot more for elk tags. in the late 70's and early 80's unit 1 had more big bucks than any place i'd ever seen. incredible amount of deer and really good bucks. now it's pathetic for deer, but there are lotta elk. i don't know the answer. but i don't like the way things are going. Lark.