Str8Shot Report post Posted July 30, 2014 I am not sure they need any new restrictions on outfitters in general. I do hate seeing numerous Cam Security boxes lag bolted to live trees and live trees cut up for stand placement and camera placement as well. However there are laws for that already that just need enforced more and maybe with a little more sever consequences. I have no issue with guides and outfitters using tech that can help them without altering the natural habits and behavior of the game ( i.e. Baiting) .... I do think that some (Not All) push the limits of the law, some going over, while trying to balance on a thin line while coming at it as ethical. I do not like those who think that Legal = Ethical... It is usually those types that get so vocal when new laws are needed and necessary... As it stands now, just enforce the laws out there. Most outfitter try to do their best and should not be grouped in with the few that create issues in the field... If anything, they need to work more on giving decent access and easements to all the land locked public forest land in many units in our state. p.s. If you run into an outfitter using spotters without a tag trying to make it look like a hunter is on a spot or several spots, ask to see their license and tag, and if they refuse give a call to G&F.... may take away a little time but feels good seeing them escorted away and see G&F out there finding their buddies doing the same thing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted July 30, 2014 Boone and Crockett, Pope and Young have been struggling with what is fair chase. Using radios, using cameras, using airplanes, using outfitters, using guides, using friends, using drones, using bait etc, How much will modern technology effect fair chase. At what point will you still be able to say I was the hunter. Will the next world record have an asterisk? I am sure everyone will look at it from their personal situation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted July 30, 2014 hay there only animails , not our fault there lower on the food chain. i'm not a guide but i'd rather they keep there rights and i keep mine. my opinion 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dse Report post Posted July 30, 2014 At what point should we restrict people making restrictions. We already have enough, that no one could read them all in a life time. You do your thing, I'll do mine. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted July 30, 2014 Is this Tony Mnadile posting under a different screen name??? Huntings next perversion? 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted July 30, 2014 No more restrictions. Standardization is a terrible word... As stated above, it is essentially socialism. MOST guides bust their humps and, despite what most think, they do not make huge sums of money. There is a lot of time involved in guiding, and trust me, if you looked at how many hours most guides spend, on average, per year, their per hour wage would make you sick. Some of the top guides in the state have other jobs to subsidize their income. If a guy wants to get 300 cameras on the strip, by all means, tear it up. I personally do not agree with it, but who am I to tell him not to do it. That's a minimum of $25,000 in cameras, another couple k in salt and his time and fuel to set all those cameras has to be astronomical. He has a client that is willing to pay him a large sum to find the biggest buck he can. Some of these auction tags go for huge sums and the guys that get them are living on a different scale than most. At the end of the day, most guides bust their butts for their clients and deserve to be compensated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
520HUNT Report post Posted July 30, 2014 Less government is better government! Keep your laws off my body. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonecollector777 Report post Posted July 30, 2014 p.s. If you run into an outfitter using spotters without a tag trying to make it look like a hunter is on a spot or several spots, ask to see their license and tag, and if they refuse give a call to G&F.... may take away a little time but feels good seeing them escorted away and see G&F out there finding their buddies doing the same thing. I'm confused. . When has it been illegal for someone to set up spotters and act like they are there with a hunter? I also don't think anyone has a right to try and force someone to show you their tag. If an outfitter has 100 guys surrounding a hillside with a buck on it I'm pretty sure there is nothing azgfd is gonna do about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted July 30, 2014 p.s. If you run into an outfitter using spotters without a tag trying to make it look like a hunter is on a spot or several spots, ask to see their license and tag, and if they refuse give a call to G&F.... may take away a little time but feels good seeing them escorted away and see G&F out there finding their buddies doing the same thing. I'm confused. . When has it been illegal for someone to set up spotters, and act like they are there with a hunter? I also don't think anyone has a right to try and force someone to show you their tag. If an outfitter has 100 guys surrounding a hillside with a buck on it I'm pretty sure there is nothing azgfd is gonna do about. If some other hunter asks to see my license and tag they will be getting the middle finger from me. No other has any right to ask you for your license and tag...ridiculous! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues79 Report post Posted July 31, 2014 p.s. If you run into an outfitter using spotters without a tag trying to make it look like a hunter is on a spot or several spots, ask to see their license and tag, and if they refuse give a call to G&F.... may take away a little time but feels good seeing them escorted away and see G&F out there finding their buddies doing the same thing. I'm confused. . When has it been illegal for someone to set up spotters and act like they are there with a hunter? I also don't think anyone has a right to try and force someone to show you their tag. If an outfitter has 100 guys surrounding a hillside with a buck on it I'm pretty sure there is nothing azgfd is gonna do about.Are they being paid? Are they working for a guide? Do they have a guide license? If they are being paid by an outfit and "spotting" does that meet the term for "guiding" and is that legal under the laws that we have for guides? I honestly don't know the answer.... I am wondering. I've seen this being done quite a bit around Payson. And no, I'm not trying to stir the pot. I'm wondering the legalities of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mc68 Report post Posted July 31, 2014 I am not sure they need any new restrictions on outfitters in general. I do hate seeing numerous Cam Security boxes lag bolted to live trees and live trees cut up for stand placement and camera placement as well. However there are laws for that already that just need enforced more and maybe with a little more sever consequences. I have no issue with guides and outfitters using tech that can help them without altering the natural habits and behavior of the game ( i.e. Baiting) .... I do think that some (Not All) push the limits of the law, some going over, while trying to balance on a thin line while coming at it as ethical. I do not like those who think that Legal = Ethical... It is usually those types that get so vocal when new laws are needed and necessary... As it stands now, just enforce the laws out there. Most outfitter try to do their best and should not be grouped in with the few that create issues in the field... If anything, they need to work more on giving decent access and easements to all the land locked public forest land in many units in our state. p.s. If you run into an outfitter using spotters without a tag trying to make it look like a hunter is on a spot or several spots, ask to see their license and tag, and if they refuse give a call to G&F.... may take away a little time but feels good seeing them escorted away and see G&F out there finding their buddies doing the same thing. +1 well said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swivelhead Report post Posted July 31, 2014 Guides/outfitters are under tremendous pressure to produce results for their clients. Suspect most guides would double their income working at McDonalds. No doubt, guiding is a labor of love, emphasis on labor. The business is already highly regulated, how they produce profit is beyond me. Leave em' alone! Gang hunting, finders fee's, trail cams, etc. are a relatively new phenomenon. Government moves slowly, how public land managers, AZGF get around to dealing with these issues (if at all) will be interesting. IMO: Gang hunting: I do it myself, these days tags are tough to come by. When a buddy draws something good I'm there. I try to respect fellow hunters, I stick to the roads and sit behind my optics. Don't know how you can prevent a citizen or a licensed outfitter employee from accessing public land for work or play. Gang hunting is here to stay, the trick is to respect others who do have a tag. Finders fee's: IRS, yeah, those guys and 1099's. Forest Service, BLM, etc. will probably be looking for a cut too. Suspect government likes finders fee's. Trail cams, ground blinds, tree stands, waterhole competition, etc: Not sure how this will go but at some point it does become an eyesore. Suspect this will be the only issue that get's dealt with by public land managers. Complaints by hunters and other land users who have issues with finding their public lands littered with devices left by others may get attention via regulation at some point. Personal surveillance systems ought to well concealed (less theft and "out of sight, out of mind"). Photo's of other recreationists probably shouldn't be blasted over the internet. A little etiquette by cam users could go a long way. Flame on! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4Falls Report post Posted July 31, 2014 p.s. If you run into an outfitter using spotters without a tag trying to make it look like a hunter is on a spot or several spots, ask to see their license and tag, and if they refuse give a call to G&F.... may take away a little time but feels good seeing them escorted away and see G&F out there finding their buddies doing the same thing. I'm confused. . When has it been illegal for someone to set up spotters, and act like they are there with a hunter? I also don't think anyone has a right to try and force someone to show you their tag. If an outfitter has 100 guys surrounding a hillside with a buck on it I'm pretty sure there is nothing azgfd is gonna do about. If some other hunter asks to see my license and tag they will be getting the middle finger from me. No other has any right to ask you for your license and tag...ridiculous! With Lance on this. If I'm on a hillside glassing during hunting season I do not need, nor am I required to have any type of license or even ID. And G&F will not and can not "escort" you off of public land for being a spotter. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naturegirl Report post Posted July 31, 2014 To each their own, but if I knew a guide was in the area, I would run and find a new area. This is from a female perspective and someone who hunts alone. I will not fight a "gang" of anyone so I can shoot an animal. So yeah, if they want to use any type of intimidation tactics they will always win with me and I hope they sleep well at night. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CaptainObvious Report post Posted July 31, 2014 I could care less how much pressure guides are under...or how many cams salt or time they have invested in a certain area. If I have a tag and want to hunt in that area I will not be intimidated by them or their tactics...I have just as much of as a right to be there as them...nor will I confront them or waste my time calling the g&f on someone that looks like a spotter ...that's ridiculous... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
