Shoot off sand bags, sled, stands, bi pod?

[Zeke-BE]

Lately Ive been working on my 300 win mag with ladder test, hot loads, now coal change ups to get better grouping. Going through lots of rounds, I was was using the lead sled, but was told others from the forum it messes with the harmonics of the barrel. How does it mess with it, and not with sand bags, or bi-pods??? Plus what do you guys think of the Caldwell tack driver? I know for precise shooting the Lead Sled does not move or vibrate when Im shooting it. I know when I shoot, the shot was good and the bullet is truly reveling itself to me. (unless Im totally wrong) Any help or your preferred way of load development shooting would be great.

[biglakejake]

for about 13 years now i have been shooting off of a homemade sawhorse bench using 40# bags of wood pellets to stabilize. kind of a multi purpose tool-shoot off 'em in august and burn them for heat in january.

 

lee

[trphyhntr]

In. I was wondering the same thing.

[jeffro]

Shoot the way you will shoot in the field. Rifles will perform differently if shot and held differently.

[muledeerarea33?]

For seeing what the gun is capable of I think your doing it right. For practice you should use your pack, tree branch, rock, etc. for sight I. I use the foam that Porsche windshields come in. Perfectly shaped for a shooting rest. And the cost is free.

[lancetkenyon]

I do almost all of my LR shooting off a front bipod and rear bag. It has worked out to 1901 so far. I also practice a lot off a ruck or pack. I also do ALL of my load development from a bipod and bag. Could I get better groups from a lead sled? I am not sure, but the loads I have developed are not for bench rest matches. So I know they shoot well from a pod.

 

I have heard a lot of really good shooters suggest not using a lead sled. Does it give you good results? Usually. But, so does riding a bike with training wheels or a bowling lane with bumper pads. It does NOTHING for shooting form. Which is 50%+ of long range shooting success. A poor shooter with an accurate rifle will not shoot nearly as well as a great shooter behind a mediocre rifle. Proper shooting form is a lesson learned from a lot of practice using good basics and fundamentals. Improper shooting form will show you what you are doing wrong. A lead sled does nothing to help with that.

 

I also try to shoot from positions that will be available in the field for medium distances, out to 600-700 or so. If I am shooting at a distant target, prone is my position of choice. But I regularly shoot from a sitting, or standing with a rest or support too. I never carry a lead sled in my pack while hunting, so that is not an option or feasible.

 

I see a LOT of shooters (and I use that term loosely) at the range that set up their lead sled and shoot a 3"+ group @ 100 and call it good. What do you think they will shoot like at a deer at 300? Minute of mountainside is my bet.

[Zeke-BE]

for about 13 years now i have been shooting off of a homemade sawhorse bench using 40# bags of wood pellets to stabilize. kind of a multi purpose tool-shoot off 'em in august and burn them for heat in january.

 

lee

Neat lets see a picture of that

[Zeke-BE]

I do almost all of my LR shooting off a front bipod and rear bag. It has worked out to 1901 so far. I also practice a lot off a ruck or pack. I also do ALL of my load development from a bipod and bag. Could I get better groups from a lead sled? I am not sure, but the loads I have developed are not for bench rest matches. So I know they shoot well from a pod.

 

I have heard a lot of really good shooters suggest not using a lead sled. Does it give you good results? Usually. But, so does riding a bike with training wheels or a bowling lane with bumper pads. It does NOTHING for shooting form. Which is 50%+ of long range shooting success. A poor shooter with an accurate rifle will not shoot nearly as well as a great shooter behind a mediocre rifle. Proper shooting form is a lesson learned from a lot of practice using good basics and fundamentals. Improper shooting form will show you what you are doing wrong. A lead sled does nothing to help with that.

 

I also try to shoot from positions that will be available in the field for medium distances, out to 600-700 or so. If I am shooting at a distant target, prone is my position of choice. But I regularly shoot from a sitting, or standing with a rest or support too. I never carry a lead sled in my pack while hunting, so that is not an option or feasible.

 

I see a LOT of shooters (and I use that term loosely) at the range that set up their lead sled and shoot a 3"+ group @ 100 and call it good. What do you think they will shoot like at a deer at 300? Minute of mountainside is my bet.

 

 

I see your point and it makes complete since, but my goal at the time was one not to beat up my shoulder while shooting 30 hot loads of 300 win mags, and 2 I wanted to truly see if the rifle shoots good groupings without human error on my part, and I almost 100% perfectly still while I let the rifle surprise me on the shot from a sled. Then after I choose my load I want Ill practice. But right now I'm chasing a load I want. But I've seen a lot of your load developments and your pulling 1/2 groupings off a bipod and a rear sand bag. Thats awesome. I just don't think im there yet. My concern was that I might have a perfect load and Im screwing up the groupings and blaming it on the load instead of myself. If I find a perfect load and then practice and start seeing it spread apart then I know for a fact its me. Unless shooting off a sled, or a stand of some sort truly will cause it to shoot differently Ill shoot it from the bipod and bags?

[Tac]

You have said hot loads and my accuracy has been poor when loaded at max. This has been my experience but not everyone's .

It seems that most of us who reload try to go to max load and then back off. I spent a year trying to make a max load work and as soon as I backed it off it became more consistent. I shoot off a bipod and bag and have learned a lot the last year.

Good luck on your development.

I shoot off bipod and bag if you are wondering

[Zeke-BE]

You have said hot loads and my accuracy has been poor when loaded at max. This has been my experience but not everyone's .

It seems that most of us who reload try to go to max load and then back off. I spent a year trying to make a max load work and as soon as I backed it off it became more consistent. I shoot off a bipod and bag and have learned a lot the last year.

Good luck on your development.

I shoot off bipod and bag if you are wondering

 

I have had 2 hot loads that shoot sub MOA. But I got a few response from members from other threads that shooting off of sleds will cause your rifle to shoot differently. I never had heard of that. Its either they are right and stay away or it doesn't really change much. I don't know. If it doesn't change much Im going to keep doing it until I get the load I want. I want to see how much better I can do with those 2 sub MOA loads using the sled. Once I have that Ill start practicing. Unless from the shooters world they say don't touch the sled because it is really not good to build a load off of it I'll change my process.

[WampusCat]

It is very possible your rifle will group differently when shooting from a sled vs the free recoil that happens when shooting in a field position. Don't take my word for it, try it yourself.

 

Set up a gong at 700 yds (or longer if you can) and shoot one shot like you have been with your rifle locked down in your lead sled. Next shoot the same gong with the same dope except do it from the prone off a bipod as if you were shooting cross canyon at your game of choice. The gong will tell you without question what you are looking to know. Repeat a couple more times to remove any doubt.

 

I don't own a lead sled but I notice a significant difference in point of impact on several rifles when I change the amount of shoulder pressure I load the bipod with. Sometimes even small details like what the bipod feet are resting on (sand vs rock vs grass) will effect the point of impact. I say that to emphasize that it wouldn't be hard to believe that a lead sled does what people have told you.

[Hatchet Jack]

I have wondered about this myself. I like to think of it as this... compare it to jumping as high as you can from standing on a concrete slab or jumping while standing on soft sand. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you take away some of the reaction (i.e. your soft shoulder rather than a rigid lead slead) you're going to get slightly different velocities coming out of your barrel. That's just me thinking out loud.

[elkhunter]

I have observed different performances from using a lead sled, rifle railz and bipod on the same rifle with the same loads. Use the lead sled to determine which loads are best for that particular rifle and then start shooting it from how you plan to shoot at game in the field. Typically we'd have to make some changes to the scope after the transition from the sled to bipod or railz.

[Zeke-BE]

I have observed different performances from using a lead sled, rifle railz and bipod on the same rifle with the same loads. Use the lead sled to determine which loads are best for that particular rifle and then start shooting it from how you plan to shoot at game in the field. Typically we'd have to make some changes to the scope after the transition from the sled to bipod or railz.

 

Thanks that is what i was thinking. I got 2 load choices to get picky with now. Im going to be shooting from the shoulder and the bipod.

[firstcoueswas80]

What exactly are your "hot loads"?