Unit 27 Schedule Change Outcome ?

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Now that both the September hunts are completed in Unit #27 I'm curious what the feedback is per the trial schedule change of putting the "trophy" gun hunt in advance of the archery hunters this year? Would be great to also hear from AGFD what their feedback has been to the trial schedule change?

 

My feedback from local hunters and the Alpine gas station is that there were slightly less elk killed in both hunts, and the size of the bulls were disappointingly smaller. This is in spite of two beautiful bulls being harvested during the gun hunt. What do others think?

[GreyGhost85]

the quality and quantity of bulls in 27 this year is WAAAAAY down. the 500 bulls they have killed in there every year since the burn has finally made a huge impact. the age class is way down as well. when you see raghorns pushing cows in 27 it's a sad day. G&F has to do something to right this. the late hunt in there since the burn has been nothing but a slaughter.

[jim]

You can not keep killing that many bulls and it be healthy. It's big country so a few good bulls will always pop up. However it can not sustain it self for ever. Also when all that burned timber starts falling it's going to open it up even more for glassing and the long range guns.

[Norteno]

I blame it all on the wolves

[GJMauro12]

I struggled but my opinion doesn't count for much since it was my first time in the unit.

[Coues79]

the quality and quantity of bulls in 27 this year is WAAAAAY down. the 500 bulls they have killed in there every year since the burn has finally made a huge impact. the age class is way down as well. when you see raghorns pushing cows in 27 it's a sad day. G&F has to do something to right this. the late hunt in there since the burn has been nothing but a slaughter.

Wait..... they had to account for the population having a detrimental affect on the aspen growth, post fire. I guess we don't have enough aspen up here....

 

It's a joke what theyve done with the tag allocation. I couldn't believe the amount of people out this year in unit 1. Overall quality of bulls has been affected in both units. Sad deal.

[GreyGhost85]

27 is going to be an aspen jungle in a few more years

[jim]

Just look what a few extra tags have done to 22s. Yes there are few good bulls killed every year but nothing like before the increase in tags. 30 or 40 extra tags in a unit that size does not do well.

[Lazy-H98]

Aw man I was afraid of this. Placing the rifle hunt first puts it too early in my opinion. The big boys haven't even moved in yet. I've been stacking up bonus points for the early rifle hunt in both those units. Now I hear that unit 10 is drying up, dang. Should have rolled the dice before the fire.

[Snapshot]

Until G&F puts conservation ahead of money.......

[AZ Archer]

I had never set foot in 27 until I found out I drew an archery bull tag so I can't compare to previous years. I've also never been on a rifle hunt so I have no experience as far as crowding, pressure, harvest, etc is during those hunts.

 

I've drawn bull tags in 5BS, 5BN, 6A, 8, and now 27. I'd take the 27 tag over all but 5BS, but that's due to sentimental reasons mainly. I had a great hunt in 27. I was into elk everyday of the hunt. I didn't see a lot of big bulls, biggest probably 330-40 class, but I did see a lot of elk. I didn't see many hunters in the woods either.

 

I spent the majority of my hunt in the burn areas. The elk are there, but near impossible to get to. You're right about the aspen jungles, left me wishing for a machete at times. Although I didn't tag out, I had plenty of opportunities, and got to see some awesome country. That's all I hope for in a hunt.

 

I would definitely put in for 27 again, and plan to be back for archery deer. I saw 2 real nice coues bucks in an area I wouldn't have expected, and saw more mule deer there then any hunt I've been on. It was a fun hunt for me.

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Thank you to all for your excellent comments. This includes posters responding, and also the excellent PM's I received. Grey Ghost has summed it up pretty well in most people's opinions.

 

Both the hunters in the early gun hunt and later archery hunt seem to have been disappointed this year. Smaller sized bulls taken in both hunts compared to earlier years, and the harvest rate down for the archery hunters in both Units 1&27. We viewed many small herds of cows managed by rag horned bulls. And most bulls viewed had broken horns indicating lots of competition for the limited cows available. Some hunters have commented (and I agree) it seems we are missing a bull age group in the 6-10 year age class. The post-Wallow Fire years of 2012-2014 produced some beautiful bulls, but the last two years they have been difficult to find. I heard of only two impressive bulls taken this year between the two September hunts. My son had an archery 27 tag, but only 3 days available to hunt. We felt lucky, listening to other hunters, with him getting a 330-340 class bull the first day of his hunt.

 

Seems like the root cause of the current elk situation in 27 and 1 is the 2011 Wallow Fire. A few good hunting years followed due to unusual nutrients from the fire, but then the visibility improvement allowed an unusual amount of older bulls being taken (and wounded) in the November/December gun hunts from long range shooting. Additionally we found wolf feeding locations in both units with 10 pound processed sausages, dead elk carcasses, and AGFD marked cameras to monitor the action! Without question, wolves are another source of negative impact on the elk herds. Seems to be a few issues that AGFD needs to address in their management strategies for both units 27&1 going forward.

[kwp]

The age class gap that you mention is very apparent, with lots of bulls that are a year or two away from being a bull that meets AZs reputation. My hunting buddies and I have been talking about how this age class gap is coming, and now it's here. The last few years the late hunt has been a slaughter, with raghorns piling up at the butcher shops.

Sadly, it needs to burn again. The deadfall is horrible, and unnavigable. I had originally hoped that regrowth would give elk cover and reduce success rates but I've been witnessing the elk avoid the aspen thickets and deadfall. This seems to be concentrating them in the open areas making them susceptible just like after the fire.

TAG NUMBERS NEED TO BE REDUCED!!!

[naturebob]

To badd. Makes Me sick. Have the Wolves got heavy in unit 1? or more so in 27? Thanks. Good responces to this topic Guys . Keep em coming.....................BOB!

[jim]

From what I saw up there this year there is going to be a lot more long range access soon. A lot of that burn the trees have not fallen yet. A couple good winters and a heavy wind event is going to open up alot more big glassing area's.