Conserve and Protect (Tags) Presentation at G&F Mtg

[HuntHarder]

this is as clear as mud. so azgfd get the money both times but they cant give the stamp money away but they can give the tag money away because magic fairy dust?

The way I understand it, the stamp and tag money could not be given away to any org and could not be used for political gains. That money would go to AZGFD and it could only be used for education. CAPAZ is backdoor promising that if they get tags, their donors will donate money directly to CAPAZ, unrelated from the money they would generate on the tag sales, and that money could be used for anything political. In other words, if you give them the chance to bid on tags, they will in return donate extra money to CAPAZ that could be used for anything CAPAZ felt they needed to use the money for. IMO, the plan is not very well thought out and more options should be brought to the table by CAPAZ. I may be wrong, but that is my understanding

[GreyGhost85]

Every time we hit a CAPAZ supporter with a question that they cant answer without jeopardizing their morals, they give us the 5 Ds. Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge.

[bonecollector]

^^what huntharder said is how I understand it will work.

[twigsnapper]

Please provide a specific example.

 

Who did you ask?

 

What was the question?

 

What was the answer?

 

This info is important for those still gathering facts and information before the June 8th meeting...

 

Every time we hit a CAPAZ supporter with a question that they cant answer without jeopardizing their morals, they give us the 5 Ds. Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge.

[twigsnapper]

Where did this info come from?

 

 

CAPAZ is backdoor promising that if they get tags, their donors will donate money directly to CAPAZ,

 

[twigsnapper]

G&F really can't do squat to stop the assault. They are legally bound to stay out of politics. I think the new group figures a bunch of money to advertise to non hunters will do the trick. If that is the case then a heritage stamp would solve those needs forever. I really don't buy that money will persuade the 95% of people who do not hunt to take our side but I would pay an extra $5 a year to find out. If that was really what this was all about the new group should be in favor of the heritage stamp but they just want to get a bunch of tags for their clients IMO.

I would support a stamp as long as the funds have to be spent on education and not on research or equipment.

 

selfishly, I would rather have a chance on a tag for my $5 than a stamp...

 

Either way I am on board with putting a plan in place to combat the anti hunters.

[AZkiller]

 

 

 

So, just a recap, Pete was saying that the money from the tags would go to G&F, but if they get the tags, there would be additional donations from various members directly to CAPAZ. This money would be used to fight the anti's. I think this is what I have gathered. So the way I see it, if they do not get the tags, the members will not feel inclined to donate extra money to CAPAZ. This will basically leave us where we are right now with no money or not enough, to fight the anti's. If there was a way to designate a stamp and split the proceeds to go to education and also set aside some money for the fight, that we know is coming, this would be the way to go. I do not know if this is possible, but it sure sounds like a good solution to our problem. I am not completely against the tag idea, but i am also not for it. I think that should be a last ditch effort. I do not like the idea of give us tags and donations will pour in for the fight. Tough deal here for sure, but I do not think it is as easy as some think it is.

You are correct except for the stap fee. I agree with the concept but AZGFD cannot use monies it raises for political campaigns.

That is what I am wondering, Can G&F collect monies from a stamp and allocate it to different orgs to spend so they choose, i.e. fight anti's. I think they probably can not, so the stamp idea probably wouldn't work simply because the money collected could not be used for what we need it to be used for. Big Donors usually want something in return and tags is #1 on their list. No easy solution, but the only way I see making this work without tags is some kind of legislation change on how monies can be spent/ dispersed.

That is a great question and I don't know. That would be a solution if possible to do.

[Nefarious Red]

If im not mistaken, the money raised is going to an organization created by g&f. It will be a committee formed by g&f members if i am not mistaken. The whole who can and cant spend money and what the money can or cant be spent on seems like it was all smoke and mirrors. According to Sneaky Pete, the tags will remain in the hands of g&f and they will be responsible for their distribution, not CAPAZ or any outside organizationx

The plan already exists within the Department. The Department was the first to petition the Commission on a plan for funding. You can read the Department's proposal for continual funding for the "public awareness campaign" at the Game and Fish agenda minutes, dated September 8th-9th, 2017, item 3a. The Department has also made several presentations on the need for the plan since then.

[ThomC]

AZGFD Commission meeting this Friday in Payson. You can speak to the commission from any of the regional offices.

[Nefarious Red]

*edit* response was to a post that has been removed

[dusty]

 

Please provide a specific example.

 

Who did you ask?

 

What was the question?

 

What was the answer?

 

This info is important for those still gathering facts and information before the June 8th meeting...

 

Every time we hit a CAPAZ supporter with a question that they cant answer without jeopardizing their morals, they give us the 5 Ds. Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge.

 

Have you or leaders of other critter groups had any discussions regarding booths at an exspo type event that Pete C. would like to model like the one in Utah?Basically asking if supporters from your groups see a gain from these events.

[twigsnapper]

 

 

 

Please provide a specific example.

 

Who did you ask?

 

What was the question?

 

What was the answer?

 

This info is important for those still gathering facts and information before the June 8th meeting...

 

 

Every time we hit a CAPAZ supporter with a question that they cant answer without jeopardizing their morals, they give us the 5 Ds. Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge.

Have you or leaders of other critter groups had any discussions regarding booths at an exspo type event that Pete C. would like to model like the one in Utah?Basically asking if supporters from your groups see a gain from these events.

Our publicity and promotions chair would handle that but to my knowledge we have not had any discussions about it. If an event like that took place I would imagine the Sheep Society would want to have a presence. We try to be at as many of those types of events as we can to get our name out there and meet as many folks as we can. At our last meeting we discussed next years schedule and the only new event was a Grand Canyon 50 year celebration. Other than that its business as usual, G&F expo, Sheep Show, ISE....

[lonne]

I am not hearing any good reasons as to why this CAPAZ raffle/auction, or whatever it is or could turn into, is a good idea. I am willing to hear from people that are regularly on this site. Better sell it good though, because it smells right now and can't see it ending up to be a good thing.

[brian390]

I don't see how the wealthy would benefit from raffle tags, unless there was predetermined amount and a singular person could purchase all of them. I definitely don't think that would be a good idea, I'd like to see a cap on the amount an individual is able to purchase.

 

When you look at the raffles for the HCP funds, it's always the average guys that win. The committee overseeing the program would be similar to the Big Game Super Raffle already in place.

 

This is a quote from Nefarious Red on page 6 of this topic. Just read it. Ok he is saying that he doesn't think that it would be fair if one guy could purchase all of the raffle tickets. On the same page just below this quote from nefarious red, nefarious red contradicts himself under azkiller's post. azkillers post is below.................................................

 

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[brian390]

 

 

When you look at the raffles for the HCP funds, it's always the average guys that win. The committee overseeing the program would be similar to the Big Game Super Raffle already in place.

Uh, wrong. Dan Agnew won one. Not exactly an Average Joe, and I have witnessed with my own eyes Cindi Richardson buy a raffle at a banquet by just flooding the bucket with her tickets. I didnt have a problem with it, I have a lot of respect for Corky and Cindy, but to say there is no advantage to the hunting elite is false.

 

Let me make this as crystal clear as possible, I BELIEVE PROVIDING ADDITIONAL OPPORTUNITY AT FINANCIAL PREMIUM IS A PROSTITUTION OF THE NORTH AMERICAN MODEL.

 

We should fight it at every turn.

If the goal is to raise as much money as is possible for this program then why does it matter who wins or how many tickets they bought? I put $300 in tickets in one bucket in the bucket raffle at the sheep banquet this year and didn't win. Just because you buy more tickets doesn't mean you win.

 

 

Still on page 6, now azkiller is saying that it doesn't matter how many tickets a guy can buy. Nefarious Red put a like on this post by azkiller. So that must be saying that nefarious red is contradicting himself with whether a guy should be able to buy all of the tags or not. This is just an example of who these guys really are and their objectives. That would be a lie.