wildwoody Report post Posted August 12, 2018 Man you AC guys got it made after 5 yrs it's obsolete, then charge 400% to install a new one, as an electrician I wish could change out panels or breakers after 5 yrs because there obsolete, I was always taught if it ain't broke don't fix it. There's are some great ac guys but a lot of shysters to. Be honest in everything you do.. Good luck on the fix 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonecollector Report post Posted August 12, 2018 Yep unfortunately a lot of residential companies are a ripoff. The techs only have a few months to make their money unless their good and can work all year. I was lucky and never had to do residential. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted August 12, 2018 I got a really good friend who works on chillers and is always busy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PowellSixO Report post Posted August 12, 2018 Lots of hate for HVAC guys, from guys sitting in air conditioned rooms. Lol. Yes some guys are gonna do you wrong, but it isn't limited to the HVAC trade. Mechanics, electricians, doctors, lawyers, plumbers, insurance, any other trades are guilty of it too. A lot of problems come from uneducated techs, air conditioning manufacturers, and the EPA. Uneducated techs sell what they're told to sell from manufacturers. And sometimes they sell you something that you don't need, because they don't have the ability to diagnose problems correctly. I've seen some motors from trane sell for 500+ dollars. Those same motors can be had generically for less than half through part stores or other routes. But if a tech doesn't know that, you might get a bigger bill. It's kind of like buying parts from rock auto, and buying from the dealership. There's a big price difference, and sometimes a big quality difference. And as far as things going out if date, you can blame the EPA for that. They keep upping their minimum seer ratings (energy efficiency ratings), and acceptable refrigerants, making manufacturers constantly having to adapt to a constantly changing standard. R22 was the norm for a lot of years. It could be purchased for under a dollar a pound. Now that the EPA has banned production of r22 for its damage to the atmosphere, and it can cost upwards of 120 bucks a pound. The truth is that not all HVAC people are trying to RIP you off, and they have to make a living too. It's not an easy one by any means either. You have to have electrical knowledge, plumbing knowledge, refrigerant knowledge, air flow knowledge, and more. And you get to do this in the hottest environment possible all summer long. You're never called somewhere to enjoy the air conditioning, you're called somewhere hot to sweat your balls off in an attic, or a hot roof, and then on to the next one. You rarely see the same problem or piece of equipment twice in a day. You're always working on something new, that you've never seen before, and expected to know how to fix. And you do it for lower wages than most plumbers or electricians. You work 12s or 14s all summer long, and work call outs on weekends. It's a miserable trade honestly. Plus no one ever even knows you exist until they're hot and sweating. Then they get mad at you because you're there to RIP them off. Lol. Most under appreciated trade out there. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoss50 Report post Posted August 12, 2018 I am a commercial salesman for a large local HVAC distribution company. Their are 2 main problems with residential HVAC. 1. Tech schools are not teaching techs to be skilled at diagnostics they way they used to I don't believe. They are pushing them through school as fast as they can and just teaching them to be parts changers. They are not teaching them to master skills they should have. 2. Alot of companies, especially the larger ones, have gone to paying techs mostly or completely on commission. This means the more crap they can sell you the more money they make. Some companies pay a tech little or nothing for a warranty repair like a capacitor or contractor, so they have to find something to sell or do that is not under warranty so they make money for a service call. Questionable business practices have helped force alot of techs to do questionable things, and make questionable recommendations. They have to give in to the pressure of doing questionable things or if they dont produce enough income for the company they get fired. The commercial sector isn't as riddled with bad business practices, but they do still exist. ................ As for wholesalers causing the problem in the market that is not nearly the problem that the contractors cause. We follow the laws set by the government for refrigerant and efficiency standards. Our margins on new equipment is pretty thin to be honest. The contractors often make quite a bit higher margin then we do on our own equipment. Factory parts do have a larger markup but part of that markup is for easy installation of direct swap parts, and to cover man hours for warranty claims (valid and fraudulent). Generic parts are low margin items. If techs knew more (back to the schooling issue above) techs could use a lot more generic parts and save people money. They often want to sell the higher price part that is easier to install though. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoghntr Report post Posted August 12, 2018 I am a commercial salesman for a large local HVAC distribution company. Their are 2 main problems with residential HVAC. 1. Tech schools are not teaching techs to be skilled at diagnostics they way they used to I don't believe. They are pushing them through school as fast as they can and just teaching them to be parts changers. They are not teaching them to master skills they should have. 2. Alot of companies, especially the larger ones, have gone to paying techs mostly or completely on commission. This means the more crap they can sell you the more money they make. Some companies pay a tech little or nothing for a warranty repair like a capacitor or contractor, so they have to find something to sell or do that is not under warranty so they make money for a service call. Questionable business practices have helped force alot of techs to do questionable things, and make questionable recommendations. They have to give in to the pressure of doing questionable things or if they dont produce enough income for the company they get fired. The commercial sector isn't as riddled with bad business practices, but they do still exist. ................ As for wholesalers causing the problem in the market that is not nearly the problem that the contractors cause. We follow the laws set by the government for refrigerant and efficiency standards. Our margins on new equipment is pretty thin to be honest. The contractors often make quite a bit higher margin then we do on our own equipment. Factory parts do have a larger markup but part of that markup is for easy installation of direct swap parts, and to cover man hours for warranty claims (valid and fraudulent). Generic parts are low margin items. If techs new more (back to the schooling issue above) techs could use a lot more generic parts and save people money. They often want to sell the higher price part that is easier to install though. What kind of mark up would you consider this? 😂 From my earlier post 👉This company wanted $685 for fan motor and $452 for capacitor + the original $100 diagnostic. 😡😡😡👈 oh btw when i emailed how upset i was to have someone even suggest i pay this they returned my $100 or actually $99 diagnoatic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted August 12, 2018 Wel a capicitor is about $20 so I'd say alot. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Sparky Report post Posted August 12, 2018 Welcome to capitalism. Sometimes there are jobs I don't want to do and bid them high to make sure I don't get them. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted August 13, 2018 I know a couple guys that went to HVAC school many years ago, and entered into the service trade. Both have since found new occupations. They said that working for HVAC companies sucked, and they got tired of having to be salesmen as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivhunter Report post Posted August 13, 2018 I own a split unit and have home owners insurance. Just last weekend the evaporator coil gave up, the insurance company sent out the tech for $70 bucks. Tech said that the evap coil needed to be replaced and said that he would "hook me up" and tell the insurance company that my outside condenser was also bad, tech said condenser would go bad in less than a year anyways. $850 dollars of "upgrades and labor" that insurance didn't cover and I was back in business. I relocated the outside condenser around to the side of the house and ran new electrical and line-set copper lines for the techs before they showed up, I had to learn the lingo and trade really fast. (thanks youtube), one thing I noticed is that the techs didn't do any upgrades and well yes the labor was about 5 hrs. I'm wondering if I paid too much, but it already happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRDATR Report post Posted August 13, 2018 Too late now but I would have asked for an itemized bill for the extras from them and to see the insurance co statement declining to pay for those parts. Still not too late to ask for that info from both parties. Insurance fraud is serious stuff and you can file a complaint with the Registra of Contractors where you can look up the company and see what type of license they have. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
