Champ and Crossbow Permit Proposed Changes

[cactusjack]

The rule making public comment period is open on the Champ and Crossbow permit rule changes. It opened on the 11th of July and closes Aug 9th.

The highlights or lowlights are-

--"Qualified healthcare provider" to sign is limited to Doctor of Osteopathy or Doctor of Orthopedic Medicine.

--Crossbow permit is renewed yearly. Removed.. was proposed 

Prohibited items for Crossbow Permit

-- Magnifying or telescoping scope, red dot or other type of optic on a crossbow.

-- Any form of bipod, tripod or other device used to balance, rest or steady a crossbow when a crossbow is in use, except a permit holder with a missing upper body extremity as defined in subsection (E)(4)(a)(i) below, may use such a device.

There are more changes, but these are the ones I keyed in on. Mind you, Air Bows and vertical bows can still use Red Dots, magnified sights and bipods/tripods/braces. Just being applied to crossbows.

My take away from talking with several Commissioners and many at the Department, the amount of "fraudulently acquired" permits was over played/emphasized and based on anecdotal evidence . The main problem seems to be the programs are not currently manageable or even trackable. 

I'm all for limiting the provider but the other changes are not reasonable.

Here is a link to comment-  

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScYIhOra-8hsDSgR8mjOmG99pSydNfhvrvufWo8B3zbBRfAtg/viewform

champ and crossbow permit proposed changes 2025.pdf

[CouesFanatic]

1. The provider type doesn't help with anything until they change the definition of what is required to get a crossbow permit. Read the rules, a failed muscle test is the minimum bar. This needs changed IMO. 

2. Not being able to use a bipod or tripod? How is a person with an injury or disability supposed to hold a heavy crossbow accurately? Isn't that the point of the permit to allow them more options because of the injury? Seems counter intuitive. 

3. The G & F is so clueless I don't even think they see the real problem here, which is a loose definition allowing abuse of the system. They are throwing random solutions that don't fix the problem. 

 

Here is the form: https://azgfd-portal-wordpress-pantheon.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/archive/Form-2738-A-Crossbow-Permit-Ap-010423.pdf

Here is the items qualifying someone for approval:

•  An amputation involving body extremities required for stable function to use conventional archery equipment;
•    A spinal cord injury resulting in a disability to the lower extremities, leaving the applicant nonambulatory;
•    A wheelchair restriction;
•    A neuromuscular condition that prevents the applicant from drawing and holding a bow;
•    A failed functional draw test that equals 30 pounds of resistance and involves holding it for four seconds. The functional draw test may not be used to determine eligibility for the permit when it is not associated with a disability.
•    A failed manual muscle test involving the grading of shoulder and elbow flexion and extension or an impaired range-of-motion test involving the shoulder or elbow; or
•    A combination of comparable physical disabilities resulting in the applicant’s inability to draw and hold a bow.

[BOWUNTR]

There's a lot of guys reading this and thinking to themselves.... "Boy, because I was lazy and wanted it easy... I F'ed it up for all those who are truly disabled." Ed F

[PRDATR]

I have never held or shot a crossbow. Do they come with some kind of sight?

[cactusjack]

26 minutes ago, BOWUNTR said:

There's a lot of guys reading this and thinking to themselves.... "Boy, because I was lazy and wanted it easy... I F'ed it up for all those who are truly disabled." Ed F

Thats the thing that's funny about this, no evidence that this occurred on any large scale.  Not 1 citation, warning or documented case was presented.  Only anecdotal stories. 

OTC deer hunts being moved to the quota system has pushed people into looking for a scapegoat. OTC deer tags are doomed. Deal with it

[BOWUNTR]

55 minutes ago, cactusjack said:

Thats the thing that's funny about this, no evidence that this occurred on any large scale.  Not 1 citation, warning or documented case was presented.  Only anecdotal stories. 

OTC deer hunts being moved to the quota system has pushed people into looking for a scapegoat. OTC deer tags are doomed. Deal with it

There are a lot of guys/gals out there who are quietly thinking... "Geeze, I know of at least one person who cheated to get a crossbow permit because they were lazy and wanted it easy."

They presented stats on crossbow permits applied for / issued after the elk season opened. Told to me from someone on the committee. I don't know the numbers.

 

I know 3. 2 of them tagged  a deer from the same unit... which closed in September. Ed F

[Roosevelt Mark]

I know several......

[jdown]

I do as well and have seen several more I didn't know and have heard from G&F officers that have shared they see it all the times and couldn't wait for this renewal period to come up. Adults and kids (because their adult allowed it). 

And part of the reason for no evidence or citation is because they can't ask... permit = ok.. 

[dusty]

My level of empathy when they want to take away your way of hunting. 

[Coues7777]

My dad has his champ permits and crossbow permit...Will it became invalid once proposed changes happen ?

[Roofer Billy]

3 hours ago, PRDATR said:

I have never held or shot a crossbow. Do they come with some kind of sight?

Scope most of the time. 

With 10,20,30,40,50 yard and so on aim points. And have a adjustment for the speed of the bow. My dad's doesn't have any type of iron sight. Came with factory mission crossbow scope. If He took it off it would be worthless without some type of sight. 😕

[cactusjack]

Most modern crossbows have optics of some sort. I have not seen any with pins and a peep in many years

[HuntHarder]

Looks like pandora's box got opened by fraudsters... 

[cactusjack]

Its going from here to compound bows and on to muzzleloaders.  Pull the thread and watch your sweater unravel...

[millerpe1327]

7 hours ago, cactusjack said:

Thats the thing that's funny about this, no evidence that this occurred on any large scale.  Not 1 citation, warning or documented case was presented.  Only anecdotal stories. 

OTC deer hunts being moved to the quota system has pushed people into looking for a scapegoat. OTC deer tags are doomed. Deal with it

hmmmm. I wonder if HIPPA has anything to do with this you know since these are medical decisions being made by a doctor for a patient 😂