WalkingW Report post Posted April 12, 2012 I like the name Acts 2:38!!! LOL that funny thanks it would be better for this topic Acts 2:12 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted April 12, 2012 All you rookies who want to change the system cause you didnt get drawn should do a search. It it has been discussed in depth every year. Some people have learned some have not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted April 12, 2012 Not much to add, leave it as it is. Yes we all hear about the guy who "got drawn again" and the other guy with x-many points that has yet to draw. Overall, the current system is fair and if you really do your homework you can learn to balance frequency of tags with demand (what some call trophy potential) and hunt quite a darn bit with some really high quality hunts along the way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goinhuntn Report post Posted April 13, 2012 Leave it alone!! The guys drawing year after year are probaly not putting in for premium units. Such as my case I am 2 for 2 I don't put in for trophy hunts such as unit 9 archery. That tag is one of the most sought after. I would like to shoot a big bull, but I would rather hunt more than wait!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
308Nut Report post Posted April 13, 2012 A waiting period would certainly help with the premium tag chasers. Any raise in odds is good regardless of how insignificant it may seem. That said, the problem with applying for and drawing premium tags is not with waiting period or no waiting periods. The fact is, Arizona has WAY more applicants than premium tags. The point/draw structure is such that for some species such as elk, if you pick a number, get in line and wait your turn, you will draw a premium tag. Unfortunately for unit 13 deer, antelope and sheep, there are far more applicats and max point holders than there are tags. IMHO early general bull elk tags, some of the 'north of the CO River' mulie tags and general antelope tags should be once in a lifetime. I also think the 'once in a lifetime' bag limits should be changed to 'once in a lifetime' tags. Early archery or muzzle loader bull elk tags should come with a waiting period. It's not punishing hunters, just giving others a better chance. There just isn't enough quality tags to go around for everybody. Cutting out previous tag holders would help those who aren't previous tag holders. Up here, premium tags require a 4 year wait once drawn. I know when I am applying for those tags, I am grateful that I am not competing with 400 other hunters who have had their day. We don't have bonus points. It is 100% random. Or so they say....Like AZ there always seems to be somebody who draws 1-3% draw odd tags all the time and others that can't draw 25-30% draw odd tags to save their lives. The bottom line is, there are just far more applicants than premium tags. No matter what you do to the drawing proccess, good tags will be hard to draw. The more applicants there are, the higher the overall human population. The higher the human population, the less habitat there is for the game. It is a compounding problem and a vicious cycle. Pick a number, get in line and wait your turn. That goes for me too even though I don't like it. M Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted April 13, 2012 Like Bill stated we used to have the wait 3 years after a successful draw as part of our system in the 1970's. I didn't like it any better. AGF didn't like it I'm sure because it excluded revenues from those that had to wait 3 years. Someone else mentioned squaring the bonus points to make the points more effective. I have suggested that to AGF for many years now and they either don't understand it or don't want to acknowledge it as an enhancement. I had a black belt data expert run the numbers and it would definitely tighten up the bell curve and make it more fair for everyone. Maybe someone else can explain why AGF is not receptive to this guaranteed enhancement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmwarren65 Report post Posted April 14, 2012 We all want to recruit more hunters to keep the sport alive for our kids and their kids. Yet by growing the number of hunters, it becomes more and more difficult to draw tags in places like Arizona. I'm ok with the point system as it is and I would be ok with it changing. Either way, someone will be happy with the results and someone will be upset...kinda like today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
111 Report post Posted April 14, 2012 I think a lot of Arizona hunters would be satisfied with Nevada's system in squaring bonus pts. Nevada's system makes each additional bonus pt mean a lot more than Arizona's current point system. If Arizona went to the squaring method we would no longer hear Arizona refer to bonus points as bogus points. Your odds of drawing two consecutive decent tags in Nevada's system would almost be impossible, but still allow a chance and it's still no where near a preference point system. In Arizona 1 pt will give you one random number in the draw. 6 pts will give you 6 random numbers. An advantage but not by much.....For Nevada if you have 1 pt squared you get 1 random number in the draw. If you have 6 pts then you get 36 random numbers in the draw. 10 pts and you have 100 random numbers. Nevada really gives each point a whole lot more meaning... I still do like the way Arizona does the draw and bonus pts, I've just been wondering if a different system was in place we all might be a lot happier with the outcome of the draw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunDevil Report post Posted April 14, 2012 one thing that is wrong with the system is the fact that you could be in the 20% max pool for your 2nd choice, draw that tag and never be considered in the 80% draw for your 1st choice. this would be the case if you put in for premium/low odds hunt as 1st choice and high odds 2nd hunt (or you had enough points to be 100% for your 2nd choice). this is really something that needs to be looked at by G&F. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted April 14, 2012 I say go the same route as NM and do away with the bogus points all together. 100% luck of the draw. No complaining, no whining, no crying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted April 14, 2012 I have to agree with Mike above. With a little tweaking the bonus point system could be enhanced (squaring bonus points to make them more effective). A few years ago I guided a 17 year old boy on an archery bull hunt that had been drawn 7 successive years (every time)and most of his hunts were September hunts! On the contrary my father-in-law is a native Arizonan 82 years of age and has only been drawn 5 times in his lifetime and never in September! I don't know how anyone can rationalize that the current system is "fair" with both of those true testimonials. I'm still a proponent of squaring the bonus points to tighten up the bell curve and make the draw fairer for all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmwarren65 Report post Posted April 14, 2012 Game and Fish said they had 133,000 applicants for approximately 700 antelope and 23,000 elk tags. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted April 14, 2012 Why should a hunter have to wait three years to hunt the unit that the TROPHY hunters dont want. You want to make cow hunters wait three years. It is more complicated than you think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goinhuntn Report post Posted April 14, 2012 I agree with thom above why should you have to wait. It is luck of the draw. If you win the megamillion jackpot does that mean you should'nt be able to buy more lottery tickets for three years. Az has a good system leave it alone. If you don't get drawn keep putting in and hunt Colorado or Idaho with otc tag until you get drawn!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzell Report post Posted April 14, 2012 I think I should get all the elk tags Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
