Dirty tactics once again from the AZGFD! Now you'll know why to never trust them

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Thank you Shawn. Once again people on this forum jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Surprisingly they don't learn from their past mistakes and posts.

Are you saying that the information in the document presented is not fact.......a tag was left in the hands of another person???

[bonecollector777]

Shawn, when you were asked about this situation today the first thing you said was who leaked this out? Why would something be "leaked" if it was completely legal and you were telling a lot of people about the incident? The hunting world is a small world and not one of us heard about this case and would not have heard about this case had my friend not found these court documents. Laws were broken and you know for a fact that if this was one of us we would have been treated much different. In the phone call today what is it that you said about the department? It went something like this. "I know exactly how you guys feel now and why you hate us. I have never been treated so bad in my life by the department when being talked to." Did you leave your tag in the possession of someone else to tag it or not? Yes you did. That is a violation of the law no matter how you look at it. The things that were caused after that were because of that one illegal act. None of us are allowed to do that so why are you? or any warden? This is just one incident of this crap. When you boys give tickets to people for having the tag of their son while hunting with them and turn around and do things much worse how can you justify that? How can that be interpreted any different? And then how can you feel good about taking $100,000 of our money that we give to the department? This whole thing is ridiculous and a mess. People are looking into it now and if what you said is true they will find out if it is true and see if people need to be punished for what they did. When you guys show no mercy on people for ANY reason don't expect a free pass from the department when you break multiple laws. Justice needs to be served. Not only to you but every officer that had anything to do with covering this up. As a peace officer knowing that laws were broken and not enforcing them is a misdemeanor in itself. And that is just scratching the surface of what happened there that day.

[AZLance]

Shawn,

 

So you got off on a technicality... So take that $100,000 you took from the hunters and citizens of Arizona, and donate it to a wildlife organization!

 

Nobody feels sorry for any G&F employee who breaks that law and gets off. Do the right thing and give our money back!

 

OJ Simpsom convinced a jury he was not guilty too.

[NoBull350]

Hey Shawn you ever hear of a guy by the name of brad??????? Of course you have ! He is the one that you conned into getting into your personal truck by telling him you wanted to "help" him with his violation and would only be shooting for 1.5 to 2 years. What did you not tell him? That you were recording the whole thing!! Now since you are such an outstanding honest warden tell the good people of this discussion how many years you got his lic for and what other charge you pulled up ! Also tell us how you drug bear hide across the road an waited for my buddy's dogs to blow up on it at 430 in the morning ! Did he turn out on th bear after his dogs riged or did you let him sit there for an hr and a Half ? Did you ruin his morning of hunting? Yes YOU did!! Could you have Waited 30 min and went and told him what's up? Shawn don't act like an honest Abe because you only fooling yourself! It's more like a wolf in sheeps clothing! Beware of Shawn the great!!!!

[SirRoyal]

The letter of the law kills us all!!! No one can be 100% right all the time .Except of course God.

When I first read this I to was surprised and somewhat bewildered. But decided to hold judgment because I did not have all the facts.

The lesson learned here is there are game wardens who believe that the hunter is guilty until proven innocent. There are wardens with this attitude and we have all met them! Somehow the Dept projects this very negative image which at times reveals this ugly head in an inferiority complex in comparison to other Law Enforcement Agencies.

I for one think Mr. Wagner may not have been 100% by the book. But it took a good bite by his own kind to make him and some other Wardens aware of how the Public is treated at times by those representing the Dept. And They didn't like it!!!! I think they will be better wardens for it!

Saying all that I personally know of very competent game wardens who are very gracious and helpful ,they love to hunt and that passion is expressed in their interaction with the hunters. They are Good People that the system has not corrupted!

[reganranch]

Shawn,

 

So you got off on a technicality... So take that $100,000 you took from the hunters and citizens of Arizona, and donate it to a wildlife organization!

 

Nobody feels sorry for any G&F employee who breaks that law and gets off. Do the right thing and give our money back!

 

OJ Simpsom convinced a jury he was not guilty too.

 

 

[AZHUNTER05]

Legal or not, leaving a wounded animal behind for someone else to recover isn't ethical by any means! My question is what was so important that you had to leave town for? If I had to leave town the next day for something, I wouldn't hunt the night prior. Also isn't a conflict of interest for you to posting comments on a hunting forum?

[bowsniper]

You guys crack me up!! Why are you so surprised? What do you expect from an agency who has a commissioner that votes suspend a hunter’s license for five years for shooting a prairie dog out of season. A year later, the same commissioner does the same thing and whines about getting cited and claims that he did not know about the season:

 

http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/34635-commissioner-husted-suspends-hunters-license-for/?hl=husted

 

Then the charges are dropped against the commissioner! Big surprise!!

 

http://azstarnet.com...2b1a5f436b.html

 

Get real, G&F are royality, we are the peons.

 

Mark

[Jcubed]

Thank you Shawn. Once again people on this forum jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Surprisingly they don't learn from their past mistakes and posts.

 

I would say.."some people on this forum"..."some"

 

Ernesto C

Ernesto,

 

You are completely correct! "Some" is what I should have said...call it a lack of clarity!

 

My apologies to the cwt community and my friends on here!

[Redman]

redman,

when my little brother first started hunting and was 10 or 11 had his first javy tag i was also carring it, and we were hunting together and were stopped , and i NOT ONLY GOT AN EARFULL I GOT A CITATION AND HAD TO GO TO COURT. for possessing the big game tag of another!!! yep POSSESSING a big game tag fo someone else, my 10 year old brother who i was mentoring and hunting with!!!.. wagner BROKE the law when he handed it over to someone else. plain and simple!

At the unit 1 junior turkey camp this situation was discussed and the law is being changed so adults and mentors can carry the tags.

 

Brian

 

Good to know, I was pretty upset after it all.... but I am glad I did not get a citation. makes sense to change the law...

[bowhunter4life]

Some great points of view,but,

My concerns, is how was no hunting rights lost? I have seen so many times, guys catching one to many fish, shooting an extra dove over their limit. Almost every time they receive max 5 year suspension of hunting and fishing rights.

I am also a little confused, how Mr. Wagner, thought it was ok to give his tag to another individual? Even though he left his hunt unit and returned home without “knowing if the animal was alive or dead.” I was told by a wildlife manager,and also during my kids hunter safety training. We cannot sign the transfer tag until the animal was properly tagged, and all edible meat was removed from the field by the tag holder.

My question is why was this covered up? Why was each individual NOT issued citations? Clearly, laws and rules were broken by AZGFD employees that enforce this requirement daily as a normal part of their job duties.

Mike

 

"Some of you call this a “cover up”. We were telling our supervisor and other officers during the entire incident, who all agreed in how we were resolving the unplanned circumstances. No one was covering anything. I have told lots of people in the public about this. "

 

Assuming this was toward my question? I agree, you stated you told your supervisor and was forthcoming about the mistakes that was made by yourself handing over your elk tag to another AZGFD employees so they could use your tag to finish hunting a wounded elk that was shot by you, since you had other obligations to attend too . God know's we all make mistakes daily, and need grace! But, AZGFD as a whole organization made many mistakes with the appearance to make it all go away, "cover up"? I think if AZGFD would've done the right thing and would have issued the proper citations, when these mistake occurred. We as the hunting public would have no issues and be in complete support of these rules for carrying another person's tags, shooting at, tagging and retrieving someone elses game.

 

For me, and having being questioned and given a warning in the past by an AZGFD officer about carrying my son "10 years old at the time" tag within my backpack during his youth hunt. Gives me a little heartburn, knowing I could've very easily been given a ticket and possibly lost of hunting rights due to having possession of my sons tag, even though he was next to me at all times. The officer at the time was very respectful, and used it more as a teaching and information lesson. Which he did state it tough for a youngster to maintain it and not lose it. As we joked, they are always wanting to look at things over and over until they lose it. :}

 

Mr. Wagner, I do commend you for allowing us to hear your side, Thank you! I also agree with you there are two separate issues at hand. Know one should be treated within their workplace, as your supervision treated you during this mistake. And they were held liable by the court, as they should of been.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

[cw4192]

Typical bowhunters. No qualifications to pass, just buy a bow and go. How many of YOU have shot an animal and not recovered it. Stick an arrow in it see what happens. Lets talk about bow and arrow hunter safety!!!! DUH.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Thank you Shawn. Once again people on this forum jump to conclusions without knowing the facts. Surprisingly they don't learn from their past mistakes and posts.

 

I would say.."some people on this forum"..."some"

 

Ernesto C

Ernesto,

 

You are completely correct! "Some" is what I should have said...call it a lack of clarity!

 

My apologies to the cwt community and my friends on here!

So explain this for "some" of us who have "jumped" to conclusions:

 

And I quote:

 

 

51, 330.) Wagner and Clay III followed the blood trail for about three-tenths of a mile until they

ran out of blood and daylight. (

Id. at 51–52, 331.) They marked their position on their GPS, and

returned to the water hole where they met Clay Jr. (

Id. at 52.) All three agreed the shot was fatal,

and if they found it, they would find it dead. (

Id. at 52, 329–30, 333.) Clay Jr. and Clay III said

they would look for the elk the next day, and if they found it, they would put Wagner’s tag on it.

(

Id. at 52–53, 333–34.) Wagner left his tag in Clay’s truck and left for Phoenix that night; Clay

III later gave the tag to Weeks because Clay III was going to be hunting and did not want to be

carrying another person’s tag. (

Id. at 53, 335.)

[123456]

Typical bowhunters. No qualifications to pass, just buy a bow and go. How many of YOU have shot an animal and not recovered it. Stick an arrow in it see what happens. Lets talk about bow and arrow hunter safety!!!! DUH.

 

I would be willing to bet that more animals are wounded with guns than bows.... Address the matter at hand and do not add fuel to a fire that doesn't need to be started.

[123456]

Mr. Wagner was clear in that he was only going to post once. If you have questions for him, I would give him a call. Let him know what you think.