5guyshunting Report post Posted March 10, 2017 Man, some of y'all have gotten soft! Do you realize what 1/4 mile is? It's freaking 440 yards. I can walk that in about 4 minutes. Find a trail to said water. Place your camera at 441 yards. Learn the patterns. Set up your blind/treestand. Ambush the elk or deer as they come in. Tag your animal. Pack it up. Go home. I'm literally lol at the freak out that's happening. 440 yards. You think we're talking about the distance to the moon. I thought this was common practice anymore to avoid the thieves. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
300RUM Report post Posted March 10, 2017 Man, some of y'all have gotten soft! Do you realize what 1/4 mile is? It's freaking 440 yards. I can walk that in about 4 minutes. Find a trail to said water. Place your camera at 441 yards. Learn the patterns. Set up your blind/treestand. Ambush the elk or deer as they come in. Tag your animal. Pack it up. Go home. I'm literally lol at the freak out that's happening. 440 yards. You think we're talking about the distance to the moon. 440 being close or far can be a matter of perspective. If I am looking through the scope on my rifle to make a shot it is not that far. If I am stalking forward for an archery shot and run out of cover at 440 it can feel like the distance to the moon. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoghntr Report post Posted March 10, 2017 Drones have already been addressed in the regs for the past year. Wait I thought we were all using them to drop bombs on bobcats and mountain lions? 😜 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted March 11, 2017 Man, some of y'all have gotten soft! Do you realize what 1/4 mile is? It's freaking 440 yards. I can walk that in about 4 minutes. Find a trail to said water. Place your camera at 441 yards. Learn the patterns. Set up your blind/treestand. Ambush the elk or deer as they come in. Tag your animal. Pack it up. Go home. I'm literally lol at the freak out that's happening. 440 yards. You think we're talking about the distance to the moon. Not the point. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoghntr Report post Posted March 11, 2017 Just fyi G&F baited my Bison last fall so babies would run for food and adults would then hang tight. They will always get what they want and imho now days its $. Less cams on water maybe equals less success more tag $. No baiting so less success so more tag $. Heck now we gotta pay forest service to use our forest that we already pay for. We can no longer use large number of roads in forest we pay for. We now MUST camp where were told to camp often next to people not at all familiar with camping or gun safety or how to hold their liquor. Etc etc.. Regulations lead to more regulations which lead to??? I'm sure it won't be long till we have a atv/utv/sxs ban. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5guyshunting Report post Posted March 11, 2017 Just fyi G&F baited my Bison last fall so babies would run for food and adults would then hang tight. They will always get what they want and imho now days its $. Less cams on water maybe equals less success more tag $. No baiting so less success so more tag $. Heck now we gotta pay forest service to use our forest that we already pay for. We can no longer use large number of roads in forest we pay for. We now MUST camp where were told to camp often next to people not at all familiar with camping or gun safety or how to hold their liquor. Etc etc.. Regulations lead to more regulations which lead to??? I'm sure it won't be long till we have a atv/utv/sxs ban. Ban atv's, no the state is making a killing on ohv tags. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
300RUM Report post Posted March 11, 2017 Just fyi G&F baited my Bison last fall so babies would run for food and adults would then hang tight. They will always get what they want and imho now days its $. Less cams on water maybe equals less success more tag $. No baiting so less success so more tag $. Heck now we gotta pay forest service to use our forest that we already pay for. We can no longer use large number of roads in forest we pay for. We now MUST camp where were told to camp often next to people not at all familiar with camping or gun safety or how to hold their liquor. Etc etc.. Regulations lead to more regulations which lead to??? I'm sure it won't be long till we have a atv/utv/sxs ban. AZGFD does not get funding from state taxes. They get it from the sale of licences and tags along with some money from the lottery. I have to remind myself of that every time the price of a tag increases. I agree that over regulation is a big problem. Consider the lack of regulation. In the late 1800's you would have been hard pressed to find a bison left to hunt due a lack of regulation. How do we achieve a happy medium between the two? The MVUM does annoy me. A perfectly good road is there. We will use it ourselves, but don't you use it or we will fine you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CatfishKev Report post Posted March 11, 2017 ^^^ Happy medium indeed. Seems us hunters cant agree on jack let alone the guys making the regulations. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZ8 Report post Posted March 11, 2017 What is the point DB? If it's more regulations, then I concur. Last thing we need are more regulations. I'm as anti regulations as the come. However, we are a nation of laws. We a free and prosperous country because we do abide by the laws of the land. Otherwise we'd be Somalia, Syria or Sudan. In this case, in the hunting community, we are governed by rules and regulations. Some are good, some are bad. We can either cash in our chips and walk away from the game, or abide by the rules as best as we can. Me, I'd rather hunt, so I do the best I can with the rules and regulations. I improvise and adapt. It beats the alternative. Anyways, not trying to preach or imply a holier than thou attitude. Someday the elk woods will be nothing but a memory. I can guarantee you down the road more regulations will be implemented. We just gotta do the best we can. Life is too short. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Sparky Report post Posted March 11, 2017 According to the US Forest Service I can place trail cameras out, depending on the forest. Wilderness they are not allowed, some forest have regulations against them, 99% of the forest or other federal lands have no regulations except that they can't be screwed to trees. Now prove abandonment. First look up the definition( to leave completely and finally; forsake utterly; desert: Law. to cast away, leave, or desert, as property or a child.) Nothing states I have to check a camera any certain amount of time like trapping does. I am an owner of US Public lands which I can use for my purpose, some of which is regulated and some is not. Camping for X amount of days is regulated and limited. Firewood taking is regulated and limited. Trail cameras are unregulated. So now if a government employee takes my property that is being used "legally" then that is an illegal seizure. They go through the pictures to see what is on them then that is an illegal search. How else they going to prove intent? Now you say somebody is picking up "litter". Once again let's look at the definition of litter ( objects strewn or scattered about; scattered rubbish : a condition of disorder or untidiness:) Trail cameras don't fall under the definition of litter either. Somebody takes my trail camera, that is being a thief. Go ahead and try to keep justifying stealing something. Abandonment Leave your vehicle on the side of the highway for a week and come back for it. It will be gone, towed as an abandoned vehicle. Leave it in the impound lot long enough and the towing company will have filed for abandoned title and now own the vehicle. The fact that you do not feel you abandoned it does not mean it has not been legally abandoned. Illegal Search Leaving the camera in the woods is kind of like leaving your backpack in the airport and going home. It is not on your property, in your vehicle, or other personal space, it is not on your person or in your possession. It has been left unattended in a public area and is likely subject to search without a warrant. Trash I ran into a bird watcher on my last elk hunt at a tank. At least 8 cameras, 2 pop up blinds and a tree stand were there. He asked me what was up with all the trash. In the setting of an undeveloped, natural, unoccupied habitat any item left behind by recent human activity could be considered trash. With a quick change of policy, not law, any given land management agency could choose to not allow cameras. They would then have the right to remove any they located as trash. You think that won't happen? While I am not a huge fan of cameras I do own a few and use them occasionally. When I place one on public land I do so knowing it has about the same legal rights as a squatter. If you are aware of an actual federal law that clearly specifies your rights to place a surveillance camera on public lands and prohibits it's removal or search of it's contents please post it. Thief? No, I don't remove other peoples cameras but I can understand that you may have come to that conclusion based on how I worded my previous post Abandonment of a vehicle along side a highway is regulated due to public safety. Besides it will be more than likely gone into Mexico or a chop shop if you leave it more than two days. Leaving a backpack at the airport is another public safety issue and not anything like leaving a game cam in the woods for what it is intended for. The unattended luggage could be a bomb and unless your in KY you probably don't have to worry about a trail camera being a bomb. Pop up blinds and tree stand was it hunting season? I can hunt coyotes 365 days a year. There are regulations and policies about leaving them out in the woods. Some places you have to take them in and out on a daily basis. Once again regulated. I have as much right to have a game camera in the woods as the bird watcher has a right to be there. The forest and BLM are multi use areas, meaning I get to use it as much as the next guy. Too bad if he sees other peoples hobbies as not up to his standards. Besides I build my own cameras now and you would never see one of mine. The game cameras are legal to put up and take pictures of wildlife. Show me a law that it is illegal to do so. Show me the law that allows illegal searching and seizure of my camera that is being used for legal purposes. I am legally enjoying my recreation in the multi use lands we have available. As you stated if you leave a vehicle for more than a week...please show me the time limit on a game camera before it is considered abandoned. As far as policy changes, I addressed there are some areas you can't use cameras, if they change a policy they have to give public notice. Any camera left out after that time period could be construed as abandoned and taken at that time. Show me the law that makes it abandoned now. That is up to the land manager to decide and not G&F. The big loop hole is G&F can dictate how cameras are used for hunting but can't regulate their placement on land they don't manage. So how about complaining to the land manager about the management of the land? Don't have G&F try to make rules they can't enforce. There are cameras out and probably 99% are used for hunting but how do you know? Maybe PETA went up and put 15 of them out to catch hunters. Finding the best times to walk to a tank and pretend to "accidentally" ruin somebodies hunt. Yes I wrongfully called you a thief but you are using the same arguments that others have used to justify their actions in taking cameras. It's litter, It's abandoned ; you left your personal property locked to a tree because you don't want it anymore. I apologize for that. Rant over. I am done on this subject. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonecollector777 Report post Posted March 11, 2017 I've heard from a few guys close to some wardens that the whole reason behind the trail cam ban is due to higher success rates since people have been using them so much. I'd assume they are focusing on the much higher rate of giant deer being killed on the strip and alot of big elk being killed. Who knows if trail cams are directly responsible when you have to factor in advances in technology, the fact that some of these companies have armies of people out looking for these animals etc. But that's what I heard is they want to bring down the success rates a little. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoghntr Report post Posted March 11, 2017 I've heard from a few guys close to some wardens that the whole reason behind the trail cam ban is due to higher success rates since people have been using them so much. I'd assume they are focusing on the much higher rate of giant deer being killed on the strip and alot of big elk being killed. Who knows if trail cams are directly responsible when you have to factor in advances in technology, the fact that some of these companies have armies of people out looking for these animals etc. But that's what I heard is they want to bring down the success rates a little. Hence more $ for more tags... It's allways gonna come back to money folks! What are they gonna say "no we don't want you killing the large, old, mature deer?" L.O.L. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lazy-H98 Report post Posted March 11, 2017 Yup $$$$$$$. Funny how AZ elk and antelope results come out 1 week after the NM deadline occurs. In cahoots I say. Game trails are better for cameras. The big smart ones water at night anyways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted March 11, 2017 The big smart ones water at night anyways. That's what the cams are for Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted March 11, 2017 It's probably just me but - think this will only increase the # of cameras in the field - Now they will be putting them 360 * on every trail leading to the catchments / tanks . putting them up in spots / seeps in the desert that only hold water for a limited time anyway - no harm no foul - they are not generally easy to access anyway these spots aren't really checked very frequently - I've got to agree with the "proving intent"- lots of people just like to get pictures there are problem areas to be addressed but generalizing everyone putting up a camera and then saying its aiding in the harvesting of an animal is BS. this hurts everyone 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
