Happy Labor Day

[654321]

I was born and raised in a small mining town in AZ. Dad worked 30 plus years and I worked 4 summers and 1 Christmas break.  1 summer cost me 3 weeks of work, contract year and they went on strike and I wasn't about to cross the picket line.  Dad was a union member.  From my experience there were pros and cons with unions.

[Outdoor Writer]

My dad spent 20+ years working on the assembly line for Ford MC in NJ. He was a loyal UAW member for most of them. but when he moved into a management position, he quickly thought a lot less of union membership. 

I'm sort of on the fence when it comes to unions. Here's an experience I had about 15 years ago when I was remodeling the master bath. I wanted to move the sink/vanity from one wall around a corner to another wall. I had already removed all of the sheetrock, baring both the 1/2" copper water lines and the 2" drain.  Even though I can do it and have all the tools, I hate doing plumbing. So I let my fingers do the walking and called some outfit where they quote by the job rather than work by the hour. It was $25 for an estimate if they didn't get the job.

So the guy comes out, spends about four minutes looking at it and says with a straight face, "It'll run you $600 for labor and materials, plus tax. I kinda looked at him sideways and said, "You're f..ing kidding, right? The materials would be less than $50, and the pro that you are could get it done in less than two hours.  I'll pay you your $25 and do it myself. " I wrote him a check and bid him farewell at the door.

The next morning I went to Home Depot and bought the T-collar for the drain, a 10' length of 2" PVC, two 10' pieces of 1/2" copper, two shut-off valves  and all the fittings I needed for the grand total of $52.  That afternoon, I had the job done in less than three hours. A week later when it became time to install a new manifold for the shower hardware I bought, I skipped the estimate and went directly to DIY. So it's been  "have torch, will solder" from then on out, including when I redid our kitchen to add a dishwasher and dedicated copper water line for the fridge. 

[naturebob]

I worked for General Electric right out of High School in 1974 Building Subway cars and the Diesel Locomotives. Union Job in Erie, PA.  Was over 12k Employees there. Today there are none. They built a non Union plant in Texas and You know the rest of the Story. I didn't see much of an advantage being Union.It was dirty, noisy ,You couldn't hear 2 feet in front of you. Quit in Sept .of 77 and moved here. Couldn't see myselfworking in a factory for 45+ years. If You really screwed up nothing the union could do to save Your But.  So I say most are bad ,Some good . When they formed in the 40's and 50's they were neccasary then I think....Happy Labor day all..........................BOB 

[Edge]

My dad was a Teamster nearly 30 years. 70 years ago his union negotiated a contract with the mining company's to give the nitro glycerin delivery drivers like dad an extra couple bucks a week as hazardous driving pay. Woohoo. 

When it came time to consider retirement, the union rep blatantly lied about dad's vestment costing dad thousands in annual retirement dollars. When called into question, the rep vanished into the unions folds like that car salesman at the lot promising you AC or a power sliding rear window but putting nothing in writing before vanishing at the sale managers behest.

The union was notoriously corrupt and got powerful off the backs of their members. All while filling the coffers of equally corrupt DNC war chests. 

You can thank the auto workers union for a $10000 car costing $30000.

[Jacob...soaz]

1 hour ago, NoBull350 said:

You nailed it ! As far as I’m concerned the guy working at Taco Bell today is as important as the lineman working today .

But I'm willing to bet all the people out of power in Texas and Louisiana think differently 

[Outdoor Writer]

8 minutes ago, Jacob...soaz said:

But I'm willing to bet all the people out of power in Texas and Louisiana think differently 

Being a union member has nothing to do with it. Experienced NON-UNION lineman could also make the repairs and probably at a much lower cost. Unions that demand higher wages and more benefits are simply raising the cost for everyone, including themselves. It's been a major cause of inflation for decades. 

[10Turkeys]

18 minutes ago, Edge said:

My dad was a Teamster nearly 30 years. 70 years ago his union negotiated a contract with the mining company's to give the nitro glycerin delivery drivers like dad an extra couple bucks a week as hazardous driving pay. Woohoo. 

When it came time to consider retirement, the union rep blatantly lied about dad's vestment costing dad thousands in annual retirement dollars. When called into question, the rep vanished into the unions folds like that car salesman at the lot promising you AC or a power sliding rear window but putting nothing in writing before vanishing at the sale managers behest.

The union was notoriously corrupt and got powerful off the backs of their members. All while filling the coffers of equally corrupt DNC war chests. 

You can thank the auto workers union for a $10000 car costing $30000.

Right before our contract expired the Union Reps would come out of the walls like rats! They would say we are going to do this, this and this for you. The Company would say screw you this is what we are going to give you take it or leave it. The Union would come back to us and say Well we don't feel that it's fair but we recommend you take it.  Happened every time.

[stanley]

Ya, regarding the political aspect/spin, I had posed the question a while back regarding union vs. non-union historically equaling Democrat vs. Republican.  It is always interesting to me that some of those who purport to be fairly staunch Republicans sometimes also appear to be big fans of unions.

I grew-up in a mining town too (Kearny / Ray Pit).  My dad, however was on the opposite side of the unions, in that he was an engineer/geologist (management).  In fact, he was one of the negotiators for the company side when there were strikes.  Was sometimes interesting at school because the vast majority of my friend's fathers were union guys, and here was my dad standing firm on the 'other' side. LOL 

I am definitely not a fan of unions.   Not because of my family history, but simply because I am a very firm believer in the free market system.  Supply/demand, and all that goes with it.  If someone is willing to do a job for a lower hourly cost than union labor costs, then I think that is the way it should be.  These are points, of course have already been shared in this thread.

All that being said though, it does not mean that I don't appreciate the hard work that ALL laborers, craftsmen, tradesmen, etc. do!   Kudos to the hardworking folks of America!!!   Here's to you on Labor Day!!!

S.

[Jacob...soaz]

12 minutes ago, Outdoor Writer said:

Being a union member has nothing to do with it. Experienced NON-UNION lineman could also make the repairs and probably at a much lower cost. Unions that demand higher wages and more benefits are simply raising the cost for everyone, including themselves. It's been a major cause of inflation for decades. 

I never said the union lineman .. that was u bud . 

[Jacob...soaz]

1 hour ago, NoBull350 said:

You nailed it ! As far as I’m concerned the guy working at Taco Bell today is as important as the lineman working today .

I also think every job is important I love me some fast food .. thats why I started this thread to wish everyone a happy labor day and relax cause most of us have been busting our butts all year 

[HuntHarder]

29 minutes ago, Jacob...soaz said:

But I'm willing to bet all the people out of power in Texas and Louisiana think differently 

Come on man! Lineman do not wear capes...  Just another profession, offering a service.  Without the turd sucker trucks, our sewers won't flow either.  

[Jacob...soaz]

1 minute ago, HuntHarder said:

Come on man! Lineman do not wear capes...  Just another profession, offering a service.  Without the turd sucker trucks, our sewers won't flow either.  

I never said we are super heros and I know its just a job .. but right now for those people out of power they think that job is pretty important.. i never tried to take away from anyone's job i a as actually thanking everyone that works hard .. 

[ctafoya]

In the late 90's when fab 12 was being built i worked out there non union. It really rubbed me the wrong way on how bad we were treated by the union guys. Name calling, threats, and just being total a holes. Over the years this has not changed. I travel the lower 48 the Caribbean and Canada for work and its the same everywhere. Work union live better bumper stickers on rusted cars with ladders bungie corded down being driven by dudes that cant afford to eat lunch and look like they haven't showered or changed clothes in a week. The electricians and welders for the most part do not fall in this category, but there always a few exceptions. 

I know they are not all the same. My buddy in Minnesota runs an electrical business and their shop is union. They have a core group of guy that they keep year round. They will create work for them so they don't lose them to another shop. He said their overall comp package is very good. He does get those guys like i mentioned above and they don't work out there, they send them back to the bench. 

Maybe a lot depends on how the shop is ran? 

[Edge]

When I was working as a commercial fisherman in AK I used to love having the union dock workers sit in their heated, enclosed forklifts with stereos blasting. They would drink coffee and eat bologna sandwiches while we deckhands built pallets of fish or crab.

It was sometimes -20F and snowing horizontally as we busted butt with no sleep, building these pallets, anxious to get back fishing.

Once built, the union dock workers picked up a pallet and moved it a couple hundred feet into a container. This took the forklift operator about 30 seconds. Took us about 15 minutes to build a pallet. Thank goodness there were three forklift operators there (sarcasm) cause at least once an hour each forkie roared into action.

[Saguaro]

2 hours ago, Jacob...soaz said:

Yea you will have that .. im not saying everyone is perfect because obviously thats not the case in anything.  I would love  to see these threatening letters at least anything like that in the last 15 years  . If you are a construction worker unions drive up the wages .. either union or non union unions keep the wage good and keep pushing for more. 

The letters just mentioned that the site was using non union workers and that they’re paid less.  The threat was that they would picket unless they used union labor.  They couldn’t prove they were paid less, in fact, in most cases, they’re paid more. This really bothered me.  Using intimidation to get work instead of a nice thoughtful letter explaining how good they are and would love the opportunity to be given a shot to show that.  Most people would like that approach.