17 points or more?

[StanB]

I think there a lot of hunters building up a lot of frustration along with a lot of points. At some point you just have to ask yourself what you want, points or tags? With all the western 'lotteries', a hunter (especially out of state) is extremely lucky if he gets to go on one or two top-tier hunts in the same state in his life. It's sort of ridiculous, but that's the game.....

[pwrguy]

I was at 12 this year. My plan is to wait for a top tier hunt, I have discovered I'm not that good with a bow . I try to go on at least one good hunt a year even if I have to go out of state to do it. I have a good shot at a Colorado muzzy hunt in September this year.

[Flatlander]

I think there a lot of hunters building up a lot of frustration along with a lot of points. At some point you just have to ask yourself what you want, points or tags? With all the western 'lotteries', a hunter (especially out of state) is extremely lucky if he gets to go on one or two top-tier hunts in the same state in his life. It's sort of ridiculous, but that's the game.....

Stan - I am not sure what is ridiculous about people having just a couple of opportunities to go on top tier hunts. Those are top tier hunts for a reason. There are an abundance of opportunities at other hunts. If a resident of AZ wanted to have a bull elk tag every year, that's possible. I really don't see the injustice in people having to wait for the very top tier hunts. While they wait, I will take "less desirable" hunts every 3 or 4 years.

[Willyhunts2]

I believe tj has drawn a tag 20 something years in a row. I know for a fact I have drawn elk every year when I put in archery bull first choice and cow second choice. If you want to hunt every year that's the way to go. At the same time there's folks on here that don't draw cow tags first choice archery. I'm a firm beliver that the company g and f contracts out to run the same comp program every year. I believe this program remembers certain numbers or names to draw people. How else you explain someone drawing unit 1 bull years in a row? It's not just luck, there is no way

[bonecollector777]

I believe the AZGFD can do whatever they feel like doing. If they want to get someone a tag that person is getting that tag. I have seen it done and heard about it plenty of times. I think these random people getting drawn for premium hunts with <5% odds two years in a row for the most part is a coincidence and just good luck. On the other hand I know for a fact some others are being "rewarded" for their services to AZGFD.

[muledeerarea33?]

I believe 2012 it was my 2nd choice, I think I did 27, 3b cause unit 1 wasn't open, I may be mistaken though.

[Flatlander]

I believe 2012 it was my 2nd choice, I think I did 27, 3b cause unit 1 wasn't open, I may be mistaken though.

I am not an AZGFD basher by any stretch of the imagination, just ask BC777, but if you could produce a copy of an application that showed that, I would say that they would have some explaining to do. For the most part I maintain faith in the draw because I really have no reason not to. You hear stories about people not getting drawn for archery cow with 18 points and the like, but so far I haven't seen it substantiated.

 

Typically what I think is more common is that many folks don't understand the draw. TJ draws a tag every year because he does a lot of research and doesn't apply for "premium" hunts. There are elk hunts with 100% draw odds for an applicant who has 2 or more points, in fact there are several of them.

 

There is a misconception among hunter's about what these draw odds are. Some hunter's feel that just because they apply for a cow tag they should be guaranteed a tag. This is not the case, in fact with the drastic reductions in the # of cow tags issued for many units, the early cow tags often present similar draw odds to a Nov Bull tag. With the reduced number of archery cow tags those hunts are far from guaranteed.

 

With all of this being said, it is a government operation, and one with very little transparency. It would be naive to think that it was not subject to corruption. I think the lack of transparency exposes the department to the accusations of "rewarding" folks.

[Outdoor Writer]

I believe the AZGFD can do whatever they feel like doing. If they want to get someone a tag that person is getting that tag. I have seen it done and heard about it plenty of times. I think these random people getting drawn for premium hunts with <5% odds two years in a row for the most part is a coincidence and just good luck. On the other hand I know for a fact some others are being "rewarded" for their services to AZGFD.

 

 

Let's have some names please, for the "for a fact."

[Snapshot]

Ouch. 16 points is a painful wait. I was up to 11 points when I got drawn last, and I thought I would never see a tag. SO now I am building points again.

[DesertBull]

A lot of people do not understand the numbers behind the draw system and when they fill out their app they severely limit their chances just by putting their choices in the wrong order.

 

If hunt "A" has draw odds of 20% and hunt "B" is at 10% and you list the 20% hunt as your first choice and the 10% hunt as your 2nd choice. You screwed yourself out of any chance at drawing hunt "B".

[Sam]

I believe the AZGFD can do whatever they feel like doing. If they want to get someone a tag that person is getting that tag. I have seen it done and heard about it plenty of times. I think these random people getting drawn for premium hunts with <5% odds two years in a row for the most part is a coincidence and just good luck. On the other hand I know for a fact some others are being "rewarded" for their services to AZGFD.

 

Not a chance - Over the years, I have known two or three Biologists and a few WMs that could not draw any elk tag. And yes, they were putting in for less desirable hunts. I do not think guys are being rewarded for their service.

[Tines]

One things for certain- we'll probably never know either way (in regards to anything shady). But we do know that the dept can issue a tag if they want to. We know this has been the case when a mistake is made on their part.

 

There are probably thousands of losers sitting at home right now trying to hack into systems to gain others' personal Identification for self gain. How naive it would be to assume that this random draw and system couldn't be hacked into and altered? OR a more practical method- you know the system already and just issue a tag!

 

I just wish I was a loser and could figure it out!

[wapitibob]

So, somebody is going to hack into the draw computer, not going to download the database and pull SS numbers off it like every other hacker, but they're going to download the entire program, decompile it, rewrite the code, recompile, then upload?

 

amazing

[NoBull350]

Sam I believe bc777 is talking about azgfd informants not actuall employees . However if your a warden in the High country and can draw an early elk tag you hit the jack pot! You use the tax payers money to fly around and do your" elk counts"! Then you kill a 400 bull first day of the hunt that "you didn't know was there" !!!! Working for the dept comes with a few perks if you ask me.

[muledeerarea33?]

I've never saved copies of my applications, 3b has never been my first choice always 2nd or 3rd.