TRAIL CAM BAN UPDATE 3/17/21

[Desertguide]

1 minute ago, az300wby said:

Come on be honest.  
Your post.  No trail cams will hurt the DIY hunter.  No trail cams on the big bo has no impact. Really 

Do trail cams help or don’t help?  

I didn't say the no cams rule didn't have an impact, I said that the other rules had more of an impact. And if you really think about it... its true. If you can't set a blind on a waterhole... what the heck is the use of putting a trailcam on the waterhole? 

[UggRedBilly]

23 minutes ago, az300wby said:

Ok cutting tags has helped.  But you are telling me no cams hasn’t helped?  Be honest. 
I have hunted 10 for 20+ years it had cameras everywhere.  Not anymore(big bo)
What happened to unit 9? Its not what it was 20 years ago.  Maybe trail cams?  

A lot has changed since then. And that is all I hear about for every unit in the state too. That it used to be so much better. Quite a lot has changed since then. We have much mor research at our own finger tips, more atv's/ 4x4 capabilities, more roads, and more people in general. A whole lot has changed since. Yes cams do affect that a bit. I wont act like it doesnt but a ban wouldnt really change things that much. I think itll lead to more human traffic at water holes or in hunting areas due to no cams

[huntlines]

1 hour ago, Desertguide said:

"Its those dadburn guides I tell ya!!". 

ANY guide worth his salt doesn't need a stupid trailcam to get animals killed. I have 4 and they're packed away in my shed... I think. They probably have all that white crusty crap around the batteries. I oppose more rules, plain and simple. Especially arbitrary, unenforceable rules. Someone with clout has a hard on for trailcams. So much so that they had to send a letter to Ducey changing the reason they want trailcams gone. The fact of the matter is this rule will hurt DIY hunters 10x more than guides. I have the time to scout when I want. Joe Hunter working 60 hours a week doesn't... and thats who will get hurt. Please for the love of God stop blaming guides and outfitters for everything under the sun. I guess we're bad people because we found a way to make a living doing what we love. So dumb

What I have seen is there are some good guides, mostly smaller operations and there a some terrible guides. A lot of the terrible ones are big high dollar operations. They may or may not have good people running them but they have lots of “workers” who give them a bad name.

These workers are the types of guys who will put hundreds of cams out in one unit trying to impress their boss. Then to make matters worse they brag about the number of cameras and what they have on them. Regular Joe’s hear about this and of course are pissed. 
 

You guides need to do better jobs at filtering your applications for workers. When you have someone on your payroll doing things which make your business look bad, get rid of them. You can honestly sit back and say you have never had someone working for or helping you that is a shady dude. Or at least does things that pissed off other hunters. If you decide to keep them on board, you deserve the black eye they give you.

Im not saying your guide service does this I’m just trying to enlighten you as to why guides get bad names. You probably already know this but a lot do not or don’t care.

I personally don’t care what happens with this cam ban. I hate to see freedoms taken but over the years I have seen so many things in the hunting field stripped away, it’s the new norm. Y’all can have at it and keep tearing each other apart over it. 
 

In my opinion, guides and their overzealous craving for money and fame have created a monstrosity out of old fashioned hunting. I personally hope game and fish continues and starts banning long range rifles, range finders and optics. You all are just asking for it.

[az300wby]

3 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

I didn't say the no cams rule didn't have an impact, I said that the other rules had more of an impact. And if you really think about it... its true. If you can't set a blind on a waterhole... what the heck is the use of putting a trailcam on the waterhole? 

You can hunt trails 100 yards from a tank. The use of cameras would help you pick a trail/which tank had the biggest bulls coming  to it. 
Did the big bo have a ton of cameras on it before they banned them?  

I agree the other rules have helped as well as not having cameras. 

IMO no cameras has made the biggest impact.  

That’s why I love the big bo!  Even in the rules it states they want hunting to be what is was 30 years ago.  Fun and fair chase. 
I respect your opinion. All the rules has made the big bo an awesome place to hunt.  

[az300wby]

14 minutes ago, UggRedBilly said:

A lot has changed since then. And that is all I hear about for every unit in the state too. That it used to be so much better. Quite a lot has changed since then. We have much mor research at our own finger tips, more atv's/ 4x4 capabilities, more roads, and more people in general. A whole lot has changed since. Yes cams do affect that a bit. I wont act like it doesnt but a ban wouldnt really change things that much. I think itll lead to more human traffic at water holes or in hunting areas due to no cams

I didn’t see that 20+ years ago.  But your right big money has changed hunting for ever.  They will just throw more money to get results.  Kind of say what hunting has become.  
 

[oz31p]

6 hours ago, AZtroutman said:

Guides and outfitters: trail cameras don't help us, they are just a fun tool to help us see what's out there.

Also guides and outfitters: I'm gonna spend $30k a year on a pallet of cams and boxes, another $5k on batteries and SD cards, another $5k on gas to check them every week all year. . . . Just for fun though. And if they say I can't I'll sue them! 

You forgot the lawyers fees

[stillatmaxpoints]

Many of the developed waters dirt stock tanks, piped water from storage tank to water troughs etc are ranchers private property. Having no trail cameras on them or people there checking them is a big plus to the rancher. One of the reasons they are not allowed on the Big Bo

[Desertguide]

4 minutes ago, huntlines said:

What I have seen is there are some good guides, mostly smaller operations and there a some terrible guides. A lot of the terrible one are big high dolled operations. They may or may not have good people running them but the have lots of “workers” who give them a bad name.

These workers are the types of guys who will put hundreds of cams out in one unit trying to impress their boss. Then to make matters worse they brag about the number of cameras and what they have on them. Regular Joe’s hear about this and of course are pissed. 
 

You guides need to do better jobs at filtering you you applications for workers. When you have someone on your payroll doing things which make your business look bag, get rid of them. You can honestly sit back and say you have never had someone working for or helping you that is a shady dude. Or at least does things that pissed of other hunters. If you decide to keep them on board, you deserve the black eye they give you.

Im not saying you guide service does this I’m just trying to enlighten you as to why guides get bad names. You probably already know this but a lot do not or don’t care.

I personally don’t care what happens with this cam ban. I hate to see freedoms taken but over the years I have seen so many things in the hunting field stripped away, it’s the new norm. Y’all can have at it and keep tearing each other apart over it. 
 

In my opinion, guides and their overzealous bead for money and fame have created a monstrosity out of old fashioned hunting. I personally hope game and fish continues and starts banning long range rifles, range finders and optics. You all are just asking for it.

That's a really fair assessment I think. I happen to be a head guide for one of the bigger outfits. Bigger as in booked hunts.. not numbers of guides. We work really REALLY hard to do things by the book. A guide that's out for glory doesn't last long with us. I think there's a invisible threshold most bigger outfits seem to cross that makes them get sideways. It's seems that as soon as the money trumps the quality of the hunt... not the animal, the hunt... outfits seem to spiral down. Now mind you... I've only worked for the outfit I currently work for so all this is speculation. I can certainly understand the feelings towards guides and outfitters though. I also think that we all have negative experiences in the field but it might be that the ones that stand out are the ones that involve guides? Just a thought. Either way, you make a very valid point. 

[plang00]

F the Big Bo.....nuff said.

[ruthunter]

Not sure why guys want the ban. Do you really think it’s gonna stop guides from killing the biggest animals? As a matter of fact it’s gonna boost there business as the everyday joe blow will be booking now because he couldn’t put out a few cams for his hunt. IMO this just one right taken away with leverage for them to start enforcing more rules. Do you want to be told what magnification to hunt with ?...or what caliber to hunt deer with? This is just a gateway for more. Stand up for your rights. 

[Desertguide]

13 minutes ago, az300wby said:

You can hunt trails 100 yards from a tank. The use of cameras would help you pick a trail/which tank had the biggest bulls coming  to it. 
Did the big bo have a ton of cameras on it before they banned them?  

I agree the other rules have helped as well as not having cameras. 

IMO no cameras has made the biggest impact.  

That’s why I love the big bo!  Even in the rules it states they want hunting to be what is was 30 years ago.  Fun and fair chase. 
I respect your opinion. All the rules has made the big bo an awesome place to hunt.  

I love the Bo too!! It's my favorite place to hunt up north. It's much like the desert in that it doesn't get the pressure that other units do. I'd honestly be happy if ALL the rules on the Bo applied statewide. But they would all have to apply for it to have an impact. My opposition to the trailcam ban has more to do with it being unenforceable than anything else. To me its a waste of time. If they want to ban something they should ban muzzleloaders that shoot 700 yards. Primitive weapon... lol? 

[huntlines]

8 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

That's a really fair assessment I think. I happen to be a head guide for one of the bigger outfits. Bigger as in booked hunts.. not numbers of guides. We work really REALLY hard to do things by the book. A guide that's out for glory doesn't last long with us. I think there's a invisible threshold most bigger outfits seem to cross that makes them get sideways. It's seems that as soon as the money trumps the quality of the hunt... not the animal, the hunt... outfits seem to spiral down. Now mind you... I've only worked for the outfit I currently work for so all this is speculation. I can certainly understand the feelings towards guides and outfitters though. I also think that we all have negative experiences in the field but it might be that the ones that stand out are the ones that involve guides? Just a thought. Either way, you make a very valid point. 

Yes, unfortunately over the years, the bad ones for me were all guides. Not the bosses but their minions who think they have something to prove. A few of them were a flinch away from violence sadly to say.

[oz31p]

6 minutes ago, ruthunter said:

Not sure why guys want the ban. Do you really think it’s gonna stop guides from killing the biggest animals? As a matter of fact it’s gonna boost there business as the everyday joe blow will be booking now because he couldn’t put out a few cams for his hunt. IMO this just one right taken away with leverage for them to start enforcing more rules. Do you want to be told what magnification to hunt with ?...or what caliber to hunt deer with? This is just a gateway for more. Stand up for your rights. 

Don’t really care how big the animals they help kill. They all have an Asterix

[az300wby]

15 minutes ago, plang00 said:

F the Big Bo.....nuff said.

Can you provide some details about your statement? 

[Desertguide]

9 minutes ago, oz31p said:

Don’t really care how big the animals they help kill. They all have an Asterix

Have you ever been on a guided hunt in another state?