An Open Dialog on G & F Laws

[Jimmer Negamanee]

Most g and f violations are class 2 misdemeanors. Check ARS 17-309B to confirm.

Look into what Old Buck said. The statute that you and Old Buck referenced seems to show it's a misdemeanor.

 

Your lawyer should be able to clear it up for you. There's a big difference between a felony and a misdemeanor. A LEO could not write you a "ticket" for a felony. If it truly was a "ticket" (usually called an Arizona Traffic Ticket and Complaint or ATTC for short), it's hard to imagine that it's for a felony.

 

The other issue is that although mistakes happen and you didn't shoot it, you (or the new hunter) kept the second bird and processed it so you violated the the possession and bag limit and you unlawfully transported transported it to a freezer. In other words, you (or the new hunter) "benefited" from the mistake.

 

I hold you in high esteem for not shooting the second turkey on purpose and not wanting the animal to go to waste and for self-reporting. In that regard, your actions were perfectly ethical as far as my values go. Those actions, however, were contrary to AZ state law. But you're paying the price for it and moving on from it.

 

When you cook that turkey, have the new hunter over and make him bring you an expensive bottle of your beverage of choice. That's the best way I can think of to make a positive out of a negative situation.

[Adicted]

I dont even know what to say here.

[wildwoody]

I would think they took the bird for evidence, that's why they came to the house,

[azsugarbear]

My case file is at the office, so I won't be able to quote chapter and verse on ARS until tomorrow. My citation was for a felony as are most other major game violations.

 

I knew there would be some coulda, shoulda woulda comments. At this point, it doesn't matter so much. I am through it and out the other side. My point in writing this is to make other hunters and fishermen aware of how things really work. Secondly, are there other hunters out there who feel the laws need to be changed? I agree that any new laws regarding self-reporting would have to be narrowly construed, but many other states seem to have successfully navigated these waters.

 

In short: are we happy with the way things are, or does there seem to be some injustice here? From my experience, the punishment far exceeded the 'crime'. I went from being a life-time supporter of AZGFD to an adversary in the blink of an eye. Every time I tell my story to hunters, boy scouts and their leaders, church members, and anyone else who will listen - everyone has been appalled at the treatment.

[trphyhntr]

dont drop the soap.

[Delw]

When I was driving home from work a bit ago I thought about this.

I had a case just like this. Ie ticket from lake pleasant park police for throwing a friendly get together tourney at pleasant.

If I recall it was the same type of ticket and both felony and misdemeanor were on it. The statue read that is was a class blah blah misdemeanor and could be a class blah blah blah felony. I for get the exact wording.

so obviously everyone looks at the worse. I am thinking the OP is doing the same thing. his lawyer told him what could happen of coarse its always the worse.

 

when I went to court and fought it myself, the prosecutor said I should get a lawyer because the lady in charge of maricopa county parks wanted my butt to hang. I told him who the f cares there is no law against what I did.

long story short went to court 3 or 4 times, the prosecutor finally found some law they could get me on. went before the Judge again, he asked if I wanted to change my plea. I told him NO he said they want to charge you with a felony and pay huge fines and maybe jail time. I smiled and said ok. he said come back tomorrow for sentencing I said ok.

got in there he asked me if I wanted to change again I said no he said ok what do you want your penalty to be. I said What. he said I have to give you a penalty. he asked if 100 bucks was too much I said how about community service. he goes even better idea. 4 hours community service. I said no 40 hours( if I recall) and I get to pick the program. he said ok you asked for it who. I said game and fish as I volunteer on fishery projects already he said sounds good to me.

 

anyway what I am getting at it is I am betting its the same type of ticket in that class. I forget what they call it and could look it up if need be. it goes from misdemeanors to felonies for the same act it all depends on the judge.

 

Trphyhtr probably remembers those days, I know a few on here do

[AZLance]

Rule# 1:

Never trust Game & Fish

[wildwoody]

Sounds he picked to do a program and lost his rights just like he was charged with a felony, the crocked arm of the law.

[bonecollector777]

You keep bringing up felonies and seriously there are hardly any game violations that are felonies. If you truly and honestly only shot a second turkey there is no way that's a felony. If there's more to the story then maybe a felony. But seriously looking in the a.r.s regarding game violations the only thing I see as felonies are these.

[longshooter]

When I was driving home from work a bit ago I thought about this.

I had a case just like this. Ie ticket from lake pleasant park police for throwing a friendly get together tourney at pleasant.

If I recall it was the same type of ticket and both felony and misdemeanor were on it. The statue read that is was a class blah blah misdemeanor and could be a class blah blah blah felony. I for get the exact wording.

so obviously everyone looks at the worse. I am thinking the OP is doing the same thing. his lawyer told him what could happen of coarse its always the worse.

 

when I went to court and fought it myself, the prosecutor said I should get a lawyer because the lady in charge of maricopa county parks wanted my butt to hang. I told him who the f cares there is no law against what I did.

long story short went to court 3 or 4 times, the prosecutor finally found some law they could get me on. went before the Judge again, he asked if I wanted to change my plea. I told him NO he said they want to charge you with a felony and pay huge fines and maybe jail time. I smiled and said ok. he said come back tomorrow for sentencing I said ok.

got in there he asked me if I wanted to change again I said no he said ok what do you want your penalty to be. I said What. he said I have to give you a penalty. he asked if 100 bucks was too much I said how about community service. he goes even better idea. 4 hours community service. I said no 40 hours( if I recall) and I get to pick the program. he said ok you asked for it who. I said game and fish as I volunteer on fishery projects already he said sounds good to me.

 

anyway what I am getting at it is I am betting its the same type of ticket in that class. I forget what they call it and could look it up if need be. it goes from misdemeanors to felonies for the same act it all depends on the judge.

 

Trphyhtr probably remembers those days, I know a few on here do

 

Did you get charged with a felony when you got caught shooting all those elk with a paint ball gun?

[Couescrazy33]

Its only a class of2 misd. Class 2 misd if officer doesnt enforce it. Class 6 felony if ur selling or trading.

 

Class 2 felony is attempted murder, sex assault and serious serious agg assaults.

 

And like stated above can only cite for misd crimes.

 

17-1309a14 is a c2m.

[Flatlander]

I had a deflected arrow kill a fawn once. Self reported in the field. Recovered the animal, dressed it, prepped it for processing. Went to Court in down town Prescott, wore a nice shirt and some hunting pants as it was the middle

Of an archery elk hunt. Told my story, the judge laughed and fined me $100 which was the minimum fine. I was convicted of a Class 2 misdemeanor and when I have background checks run the only thing that comes up is

Forfeited bail on a seat belt ticket in Graham County that I cant even remember.

[Delw]

 

When I was driving home from work a bit ago I thought about this.

I had a case just like this. Ie ticket from lake pleasant park police for throwing a friendly get together tourney at pleasant.

If I recall it was the same type of ticket and both felony and misdemeanor were on it. The statue read that is was a class blah blah misdemeanor and could be a class blah blah blah felony. I for get the exact wording.

so obviously everyone looks at the worse. I am thinking the OP is doing the same thing. his lawyer told him what could happen of coarse its always the worse.

 

when I went to court and fought it myself, the prosecutor said I should get a lawyer because the lady in charge of maricopa county parks wanted my butt to hang. I told him who the f cares there is no law against what I did.

long story short went to court 3 or 4 times, the prosecutor finally found some law they could get me on. went before the Judge again, he asked if I wanted to change my plea. I told him NO he said they want to charge you with a felony and pay huge fines and maybe jail time. I smiled and said ok. he said come back tomorrow for sentencing I said ok.

got in there he asked me if I wanted to change again I said no he said ok what do you want your penalty to be. I said What. he said I have to give you a penalty. he asked if 100 bucks was too much I said how about community service. he goes even better idea. 4 hours community service. I said no 40 hours( if I recall) and I get to pick the program. he said ok you asked for it who. I said game and fish as I volunteer on fishery projects already he said sounds good to me.

 

anyway what I am getting at it is I am betting its the same type of ticket in that class. I forget what they call it and could look it up if need be. it goes from misdemeanors to felonies for the same act it all depends on the judge.

 

Trphyhtr probably remembers those days, I know a few on here do

 

Did you get charged with a felony when you got caught shooting all those elk with a paint ball gun?

 

No the G&F guy I was hunting with at the time forgot his ticket book at home when I picked him up.

man those were the good old days when they participated

[ThomC]

As usual there is much fake info on the internet. You brought your case to the internet court of public opinion and everybody has one. You need a "good" lawyer and that is the hard part. Self reporting is not a get out of jail free card. Do you self report every time that you speed? The bottom line is if you make a mistake then, unless you want to play games with the legal system, walk away and teach your charge the facts of life and "discretion is the better part of valor". IMHO

[brademan76]

So what was the final outcome? You said you elected to do a diversion program of sorts vs take the issue to court, correct?

After said program, what is on your record? How does the affect your right to own/possess a firearm and hunting privileges in AZ and nationwide?

 

As most have said I probably would've gone in front of a judge and plead my case as we would all like to imagine that no reasonable judge would charge an upstanding person with a felony equivalent to someone who has committed violent crimes. But, I'm sure that's a tough risk to consider depending on the dynamics of your personal/home situation.

 

 

I'm unsure if our self reporting laws need changed as I have no experience with them or any other state's. Can you speak a little more to what they are in AZ (sounds like non-existent) vs what they look like in other states where the possible punishment becomes far less significant?