Dragon Bravo Fire

[stanley]

7 hours ago, Roofer Billy said:

There are a lot that don't make it. They move down because fire moves up. They will move low in the valleys and travel through them to escape. Often at night and into early morning the smoke settles down really thick into the valleys and ravines. Causing many different animals to suffocate do to lack of oxygen. Not so much as getting burnt. Tragic no matter what. 

It really makes you wonder. Who really is in charge. Are We Making America Great Again or destroying it. Sure seem like the last of the two. 

 

Cite your source regarding that specific animal behavior during forest fires, and specifically animals suffocating at night due to lack of oxygen?   Have never heard that before.....

On one hand this fire absolutely sucks.  That lodge and the plateau in general, was/is spectacular!   (Hope they build the lodge back, including bringing back Brightie!!!)     As mentioned, it sucks for this year's hunters and hikers, too.  That being said, forest fires DO happen, and the long-term result is usually positive.  Seems like a lot of nice bucks and bulls have been killed in burn scars over the years. 

S.

 

[knothead]

The mindset of putting fires out immediately is partly why we see such devastation when there are fires.  Fires are a normal part of the entire ecology.  Nobody likes to see property destroyed or people injured but this is what happens when all you have done is suppress fire for the last 100 years or so.  Logging and thinning helps but it doesn't do near as much good as an occasional fire rolling through.  Native Americans purposely started fires because they new after fires the lands were healthier and attracted more wildlife for them to hunt.  When I went to ASU more than 30 years ago I had a professor that wrote a book about fires and made me look at them totally different.  Good read.  https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Rim-Firefighters-Season-Canyon/dp/0295974834

[NOTAGS]

94,000 acres as of this morning, and threatening the old Kaibab Lodge. If the wind doesn’t shift there won’t be much left up there… That forest was/ is crazy thick in that area. Tragic for sure,  and as some have said  thats  nature at work…

[Roofer Billy]

1 hour ago, stanley said:

Cite your source regarding that specific animal behavior during forest fires, and specifically animals suffocating at night due to lack of oxygen?   Have never heard that before.....

 

 

 

[AZ11]

I agree that fires can be good for the environment when they don't burn too hot from an over grown forest, and are done in the spring or fall when there's some moisture in the ground . That's why you thin and log the forest without clear cutting it, so the fires don't burn so hot. If you just let the fires burn freely like hundreds of years ago, then you're going to have a lot of property burning down.

[stanley]

7 hours ago, Roofer Billy said:

 

Interesting.....   The blog post from a wildlife conservation non-profit doesn't exactly support your claim regarding 'many different animals suffocating....' and it happening 'often'.   I Googled too, and can't really find anything solid that supports that the theory is widespread.  

Here's an article that gives sort of a broad summary of how fires in general, impact wildlife.   Appears the more significant impact generally comes in the form of habitat destruction and regeneration (or not)....   Seems like in the past, the Kiabab herd has been pretty resilient.  Hoping for the same result here....  

How Does Wildfire Impact Wildlife and Forests? | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

Either way, I'm praying for monsoon rain!!!!!!

 

[trphyhntr]

ai sucks as a source 

[stanley]

36 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

ai sucks as a source 

+1

You went one further and said what I was sort of thinking....   AI sucks as a source because it really isn't a source.  

[Roofer Billy]

1 hour ago, stanley said:

Interesting.....   The blog post from a wildlife conservation non-profit doesn't exactly support your claim regarding 'many different animals suffocating....' and it happening 'often'.   I Googled too, and can't really find anything solid that supports that the theory is widespread.  

Here's an article that gives sort of a broad summary of how fires in general, impact wildlife.   Appears the more significant impact generally comes in the form of habitat destruction and regeneration (or not)....   Seems like in the past, the Kiabab herd has been pretty resilient.  Hoping for the same result here....  

How Does Wildfire Impact Wildlife and Forests? | U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service

Either way, I'm praying for monsoon rain!!!!!!

 

Thank you. 

I'm right there with you. As far as praying for rain. And I really hope that the deer ,bison and wildlife all are able to escape to somewhere safe. 

And more then that. The hunters who have waited nearly a lifetime to get a bison or deer tag. And now may not be able to hunt at all. 

This whole thing sucks .And is very unfortunate. People have lost homes, businesses and more. 

Let's all pray and just hope that it gets put out sooner then later. Then hopefully one of the most beautiful places in the world. Can heal and become even better then before🙏🤞

[azelkhunter69]

Already decided to turn in my 12A Archery Tag...not that I would have a choice.  Glad I bought Pointguard.

[PRDATR]

2 hours ago, Roofer Billy said:

Thank you. 

I'm right there with you. As far as praying for rain. And I really hope that the deer ,bison and wildlife all are able to escape to somewhere safe. 

And more then that. The hunters who have waited nearly a lifetime to get a bison or deer tag. And now may not be able to hunt at all. 

This whole thing sucks .And is very unfortunate. People have lost homes, businesses and more. 

Let's all pray and just hope that it gets put out sooner then later. Then hopefully one of the most beautiful places in the world. Can heal and become even better then before🙏🤞

Agree. Nothing but hot, Hotter and very dry for the next 10 days. So much for a monsoon this year, can pretty muck kiss that goodbye. We usually get a blast of rain  a week to ten days before Dove season if that's any consolation.

[runningbird]

I recommend a book by Jinx Pyle.  I think he wrote it in the late 60's.  He lived in the Payson, Gisela, Young area.  In this books he predicts exactly what has been happening out west.  He wrote this long before we had huge fires.  And also tells his opinions on why the forest circus lets this happen. 

If any of you have been going to the north rim for a long time.  Just think how long it took Jacob Lake to get permits to sell diesel fuel.  Now it it and the country store burn down.  Do you thing the forest circus will give permits for fuel again?  This would effectively shut down the north rim to most people. 

He also talks about the introduction of top line predators.

Easy read but will make you think.  

[verdehunter]

Fighting forest fires started because there was money in the trees. Logging for lumber (and other uses) was seen as a huge economic driver. Keeping all that money from burning was the goal. What we see as today’s forests is not natural. Too dense and overgrown from fighting fires. As has been said, it is (was) a healthy part of nature. But that was more so when trees were spread 50-100 yards apart. Not 5-10 feet. And now when they try to let nature take its course to help the ecosystem, the result is larger, hotter, more destructive fires that are not natural. 

[dusty]

46 minutes ago, runningbird said:

I recommend a book by Jinx Pyle.  I think he wrote it in the late 60's.  He lived in the Payson, Gisela, Young area.  In this books he predicts exactly what has been happening out west.  He wrote this long before we had huge fires.  And also tells his opinions on why the forest circus lets this happen. 

If any of you have been going to the north rim for a long time.  Just think how long it took Jacob Lake to get permits to sell diesel fuel.  Now it it and the country store burn down.  Do you thing the forest circus will give permits for fuel again?  This would effectively shut down the north rim to most people. 

He also talks about the introduction of top line predators.

Easy read but will make you think.  

Looking Through the Smoke Paperback –   He was no fan of the wolf reintro either.

by Jinx Pyle

[stanley]

Ugh.....   Looking like virtually the entire East side, at least, is going to burn.   

Looking at satellite overlay on watchduty.org, and you can see the burn scar from the last big fires.  Appears to be ready to overtake that area, again.

Thankful for prevailing West winds??   Looks like that might be the only thing keeping it from running over the entire plateau, at this point.