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24 minutes ago, Wagges said:

My understanding is that most of the beef that comes from southwest and leased lands is sold over seas. I was told this by a rancher/cattle man. This is a term I use for a person solely makes his money from the sale of cattle. He told me the majority of our beef goes over seas, China. Don't quote me on the true amount as I admit I don't know the percentages. It's wrong to lose habitat and wildlife numbers to overseas interests. The cattle industries in the Midwest and East do it on private lands. This cattleman, told me that the average desert ranch with some property and the lease, is selling for 800,000.00 to a million, and you can't touch the ranches in the better elevations because of the price. So please don't ask me if I eat steak. For 30 years I have eaten ELK, Deer, Antelope and have not bought one package of hamburger. I DO BUY STEAKS AT COSTCO. All the ponds are all ready built, so what exactly do they do for wildlife besides drink them DRY

These are the questions everyone should be asking even if their eyes can't see what is really happening out there. I would love to see the evidence and facts to support what you've relayed. Logic tells me your intel is probably very close to the truth of the matter. 

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35 minutes ago, Wagges said:

My understanding is that most of the beef that comes from southwest and leased lands is sold over seas. I was told this by a rancher/cattle man. This is a term I use for a person solely makes his money from the sale of cattle. He told me the majority of our beef goes over seas, China. Don't quote me on the true amount as I admit I don't know the percentages. It's wrong to lose habitat and wildlife numbers to overseas interests. The cattle industries in the Midwest and East do it on private lands. This cattleman, told me that the average desert ranch with some property and the lease, is selling for 800,000.00 to a million, and you can't touch the ranches in the better elevations because of the price. So please don't ask me if I eat steak. For 30 years I have eaten ELK, Deer, Antelope and have not bought one package of hamburger. I DO BUY STEAKS AT COSTCO. All the ponds are all ready built, so what exactly do they do for wildlife besides drink them DRY

You do realize this is hearsay and you ARE speculating.  That is unless you name the rancher/cattleman.  If named, what are his credentials other than saying he is a rancher/cattlman?  Does he market beef beyond the slaughterhouse?

Also, based on the anti grazing comments on this thread it would appear many of you reject multiple use and the north american model.

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The Contribution of the Beef Industry to the Arizona Economy

A study by the University of Arizona's Cooperative Extension Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics (read the 2014 study here)

  • Arizona's beef industry manages more than 71 percent of the state’s cattle and calf inventory.
  • Grazing is the dominant land use in Arizona, making up 73 percent of Arizona’s total land area and approximately 98 percent of Arizona’s total agricultural land, with cropland accounting for the remaining 2 percent of agricultural land.
  • The beef community contributed $431 million to Arizona’s GDP. 
  • Approximately 21 percent of all farms in Arizona specialize in beef production.
  • The beef industry exports approximately $521 million (43%) of its total beef output.
  • For every 100 jobs in the cattle community, 65 jobs in outside operations are created.
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1 hour ago, Wagges said:

All the ponds are all ready built, so what exactly do they do for wildlife besides drink them DRY

Considering how and why those "ponds" are maintained and were built in the first place, that's not much different than asking hunters what they do for wildlife other than kill. 

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I guess all the millions and millions of Bison that roamed the plains pre 1870 didn't fart.

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Mostly cow calf operations in southern az. Dry ponds are either forgotten because the ground couldn’t hold the water or the pond was built 30-60 years ago and the bottom won’t hold water. It’s not that they won’t fix it, it’s a question of, is it worth fixing or can the money be spent better in another area for water. If the calves sold from these outfits halted, where would the Midwest and eastern “fatting” houses get their beef? Az usually send babies, back east/central makes them a consumable product. 

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1 hour ago, AZAV8ER said:

I guess all the millions and millions of Bison that roamed the plains pre 1870 didn't fart.

Didn’t you know bison don’t fart they fluff

its still the same old sh$t though 

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14 hours ago, AZDirtyTaco said:

I backpack a fair amount and many of my favorite natural riprarian areas that are sensitive to such large populations of cattle and non-native species are getting decimated. There are several wilderness areas I used to be able to take a nice soak and a drink right from the spring and now they are all too often infested with fecal matter and urine and barely filterable due to the cattle being moved in. Places many of you reading this don't see unless you're truly in the backcountry and miles away from your vehicles, ATV's and UTV's. I see it almost everywhere I go and that cattle are present. Some of those places will come back in time if given the chance and others, well... might not be so fortunate. I'm not an anti-cattle person though it may come across that way. I'm pro-wildlife and would love to see better utilization and management of public lands. There are plenty of other more suitable places in the country to raise cattle.

Cattle are not allowed in designated wilderness areas and every rancher running cattle near a wilderness knows this. What wilderness areas are you finding cattle miles into? 

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18 hours ago, Ringer said:

I've eaten moose, elk, deer, rabbit, squirrel, mountain lion, bear, bison, sheep, javelina and a lot of other animals. Maybe open a season for horses and burros and try them out.

It's not bad.

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2 hours ago, akaspecials said:

Cattle are not allowed in designated wilderness areas and every rancher running cattle near a wilderness knows this. What wilderness areas are you finding cattle miles into? 

Pine Mt is the worst case I've seen - cattle stretch the wilderness end to end, Hellsgate in the past (haven't been out there in a few years), North end of the Superstitions near Rogers Trough area, is what comes to mind without digging too deep. I spend a bunch of time in 20B out the Bradshaws and though not wilderness, lot's of disheartening stuff going there as well. I have honestly yet to see grazing not overlap wilderness where ranchers have leases butting up.  Fence lines are almost always not kept intact, particularly when in-line with access to water. Coincidence...???

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Pine Mountain used to be great. The cows are a problem but the hikers killed the hunting there. Those little AZ Trail signs all over and people walking by the water holes filling up their filter bottles right after 20 cows crapped and peed in it. I saw elk there but nothing like the old days. There were a lot more cattle in the unit than I have ever seen.

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3 hours ago, akaspecials said:

Cattle are not allowed in designated wilderness areas and every rancher running cattle near a wilderness knows this. What wilderness areas are you finding cattle miles into? 

They are in the Arrastra Mountain Wilderness.

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There is livestock in the apache creek wilderness area.

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