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SirRoyal

TRAIL CAM BAN UPDATE 3/17/21

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11 minutes ago, 654321 said:

How do you know they are using it to take game.  Maybe they're part of that group that runs trail cameras because it's great family fun so they use Deer Co Cain for the great picture opportunities.  Plenty of poaching that goes on and people get away with it doesn't mean poaching isn't being enforced.   

Fair point. 

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3 hours ago, Desertguide said:

No question regular Joe's will have a harder time... I've said that from the beginning. What does that do for the sport overall? That's the big question mark for me. Will we lose hunters because of it? Thats obviously yet to be seen..

What you have to keep in mind is you aren't the typical hunter. None of the guys on this post are typical of the average hunter out there. You're passionate about it... or you wouldn't be on a coues website in April... lol. You're also likely 10x more talented as a hunter than the average guy because you are passionate about it. When guys are passionate about something they also tend to obey the rules more. You're also not jealous of outfitters. I would say that most guys that hate outfitters because deep down they are jealous. Again... probably not the guys here because most the guys here can get out and get it done without an outfitter so there's nothing to be jealous of. They hate us for different reasons... 😂😂😂

I don't think this will make deer more elusive, I think it will make them less elusive. Why does a buck go nocturnal? Pressure. What does 20 cameras on a drinker create? Pressure. 

The fair chase argument is up for debate I guess. I personally think cameras are fair under most circumstances. The real time cell type cameras aren't in my opinion. But again... thats a matter of opinion and some will obviously disagree with me. That's cool. 

You also commented before about it being BS that guys will break the rule because it's unenforceable. I'll tell you a little known fact. 80% of the guides and outfitters out there break the law before they even get out of their trucks. Most of them don't have forest service permits, BLM permits, proper insurance, a food handlers card (required on Federal Land if you're preparing clients food), a CPR card or the proper medical kit in their pack. So if all those guys out there are already knowingly and willingly breaking the rules... why wouldn't they break one more? 

Do you think the "average hunter" ( guys not on this site) use trail cams?  I would venture to say most guys I know that I would call hobby hunters barely know what trail cameras do.  A trail camera ban will not affect them at all.  If anything, I would say it will hit the guide services the hardest, (atleast the ones that use then extensively) and next would be the guys that would be on hunting forums.  The guys that put in for hunts and barely know what unit they put in for or do not even own a bow and put in for archery will not be affected negatively by a ban.  

As far as making then less elusive, you said a few posts back that there will be more pressure in the woods because of guides hiring college kids.  

Time will tell what the true outcome of this is.  I await the actual language of the law ( if passed) to make an assumption on it's effectiveness.  Fair chase is 100% a determination that the actual hunter has to make.  With all the advancements in tech, there are lots of different opinions on it.  Compared to 50 years ago, 3/4 of the shitt we use could be considered not fair chase.  I see more and more states starting the trail camera ban talk and I have seen how it can negatively impact the sport, so I am ok with getting rid of mine.  Small concession in the grand scheme of things.  No doubt, over the next 10 years, there will be more and more regulations put into place on all aspects of hunting.  With a dwindling resource and demand getting higher each year, concessions will have to be made to sustain.  

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54 minutes ago, HuntHarder said:

Do you think the "average hunter" ( guys not on this site) use trail cams?  I would venture to say most guys I know that I would call hobby hunters barely know what trail cameras do.  A trail camera ban will not affect them at all.  If anything, I would say it will hit the guide services the hardest, (atleast the ones that use then extensively) and next would be the guys that would be on hunting forums.  The guys that put in for hunts and barely know what unit they put in for or do not even own a bow and put in for archery will not be affected negatively by a ban.  

As far as making then less elusive, you said a few posts back that there will be more pressure in the woods because of guides hiring college kids.  

Time will tell what the true outcome of this is.  I await the actual language of the law ( if passed) to make an assumption on it's effectiveness.  Fair chase is 100% a determination that the actual hunter has to make.  With all the advancements in tech, there are lots of different opinions on it.  Compared to 50 years ago, 3/4 of the shitt we use could be considered not fair chase.  I see more and more states starting the trail camera ban talk and I have seen how it can negatively impact the sport, so I am ok with getting rid of mine.  Small concession in the grand scheme of things.  No doubt, over the next 10 years, there will be more and more regulations put into place on all aspects of hunting.  With a dwindling resource and demand getting higher each year, concessions will have to be made to sustain.  

Lol... I honestly don't know what average hunters do anymore. I've been obsessed with hunting for way too long. 

As far as the pressure of college kids goes, I think there will be more pressure during the hunts than there is now and less preseason pressure than there is now... if there is a ban. If I was having a kid preseason scout for me, he would get explicit instructions not to push or bump the deer. Hang back and watch from a distance. Honestly though... in the end it's probably a wash. 

Again... it will effect outfitters but I can promise you it won't hurt them. A big adjustment for sure but it wouldn't take long. It will be another wash at best. I personally think it will help outfitters. Actually I know it will. 

We've gone back and forth at length so you already know that in the end... I don't care either way. This is all came about because of a handful of outfitters in a few units. Nobody can argue that. The funny thing is and the reason I take issue with all this is because the guys that caused all this will be hurt the least by it. 

I sure do appreciate the civil discussion man. I could disagree with a guy like you all day long... 😂😂😂. Seriously though... thanks for not getting stupid and making it personal. 

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On 3/17/2021 at 9:08 PM, huntlines said:

I’m a troll? Nice try. I’ve been a member for almost ten years. I don’t guide. I’ve helped lots of friends and family members on hunts but not for money. 
 

Your lying to yourself if you say it’s not for the money otherwise you’d do it for free. It’s always about the money and the tips. Now I know your paper thin.

My favorite rifle is my 300wby and now I want to sell it.....

Besides the money don’t forget about the fame.

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1 hour ago, wish2hunt said:

Besides the money don’t forget about the fame.

Lol... money and fame???? 

I'd make double per year doing my day job if I didn't guide. And that's doing 25 hunts per year. 

While I don't doubt there are guys doing it for fame... they ain't sh!t if they aren't putting animals on the ground. Those guys last about 10 minutes guiding. Name someone that doesn't want to be known as the best at their chosen profession... I'll wait. 

No offense intended towards anyone here, but I've found that most guys know zilch about what we make, why most of us do it or what it takes to be a guide.

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The Lame and squishy will use cameras to catch you using cameras.  LOL

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On 4/18/2021 at 7:58 AM, ThomC said:

The Lame and squishy will use cameras to catch you using cameras.  LOL

How do they prove it’s for take?

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They will develop a computer program.   

The only flaw is they have NO history in accurate computer programs.

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I’m to the point I hope they ban all trail cameras all the time. Then I hope they move on to binoculars over 8 power, scopes over 8power and range finders over 300 yards. Eventually they will ban hunting all together.

Its like the Democratic Party going after guns, they start with high capacity magazines then move to semi automatic rifles and before long they have all guns.

The country deserves what it gets for electing Biden and y’all get what you deserve for pushing bans on things you deem “not fair chase”. 

 

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So back in the good ol days before trail cameras, spot lighting all night long was how a bunch of big critters got killed. Some legal and some not legal. But to me the argument that pressure will decrease if we ban cameras is invalid. I personally believe it and have seen just the opposite.  But I digress, I love getting pictures and checking cameras during the summer but I'll be out as much as I can with or without cameras.  I'm one of those on the side that it will hurt the "average" hunter more than anyone. 

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That is right it will hurt the average hunter not the guides that caused the problem.  The people who charge the big bucks will get around or just ignore the rule.  Sportsmen and women have lost their voice on the Commission.

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32 minutes ago, 654321 said:

How many hunters in this state run trail cameras? 

What is "a question Game and Fish never bothered to ask" for $1000 Alex?

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Go find a water hole during hunting season that doesn't have a camera and report back to me, good luck.  Just my opinion but to me fair chase is fair chase.  Get out and scout with the two eyes God gave you and enjoy every minute of it, don't let a machine do it for you.

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The Game and Fish Dept has no authority to ban trail cameras.

They can only make a rule that says they cannot used to aid in the take of wildlife.

Even if they pass the rule, you can still put out as many cameras as you want, whenever you want.

They even said this in their meetings and on several podcast that commission members have done.

No different than the G&F having a rule stating that you cannot use FMJ ammo to hunt with but its not against the law to own and shoot FMJ ammo.

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