Just want to vent

[muledeerarea33?]

Again, only property owners should get to hunt! And they should only be able to hunt on their own land or a friends land that owns property. Leave the 1/4 rule! At that point there would be plenty of animals and the scavengers who want meat can stand in line at the wild game tent (sorta like the Obama phone tent or frys at the first of the month) either was.... Shut up.

[krp]

Squaring or upping the bonus pass % will both have short term increased drawing for higher resident BP holders and then cause long term wait periods for subsequent years as BP holders bunch up at max points like NRs do now. Any movement closer to a preference system is in the wrong direction.

 

This argument comes up often, last time I spent the effort with the numbers was 08 or 09 on MM and the thread was linked to this site. I'm not doing the numbers again as it 'hurts my head' as many said or they just dismiss because it's to hard to understand.

 

Here's the short version of that argument... using unit 1 archery as the model, I said 20% pass bp levels was staying steady or dropping, I had been watching certain units for a few years. Others said I was crazy and point creep was making them rise and would increase rapidly. I put up numbers, someone else put up charts.

 

Unit 1 took 12 bps to get in the 20% pass, 3A/3C took 11 bps.

 

Now unit 1 takes 11 bps and 3A/3c takes 10... the opposing chart showed 16 by 5 years or so.

 

Here are the factors...

 

20% bonus pass draw

80% general draw

1st and 2nd choice on the same draw

2nd choice being in the 20% pass

All but the most premium hunts have more second choice applicants than first at the highest level, and most draw the tag on the second choice.

NR domination of high BPs

And now residents getting another 5% of tags in the 20% pass.

 

Top 1000 bp holders has creeped up from 13+ to 14+, because of NRs being in a preference system for mid level to high level hunts.

 

Top 4500 bp holders are 9+.

 

Are we going to create a preference system upping wait times for all hunts including low level bull, cow and limited opportunity, where most of the 100,000+ applicants reside, just so a few folks wanting premium hunts can pull a tag earlier the next couple years.

 

The only way to reduce the hail mary tags is remove the 2nd choice from 1st/2nd draw. This will make someone be realistic in their choice as bull tags will go in the first round. Which is the mathematical answer.

 

But folks like their long shots.

 

Kent

[hawkens]

Sounds Like a Bunch a Whiners who always got there way now welcome to the real world or maybe vote Bernie he ll make it fair for ya Sheez whine cuz of the deadline , whine because of wait ,whine didnt draw we all playing the same game suck it up !!!

[Stroke]

This will be my 4th elk tag in 5 years, with this year being my third bull tag. My last two bull tags were in unit 8 September archery and this year is unit 10 rifle and last year was a cow tag, I just been very fortunate. It's the luck of the draw! Now if I had that luck to draw a late December coues tag that would be awesome. It's like playing the lottery, or if you can find someone who has a lot of BP's and put in with them, and better your chances.

[muledeerarea33?]

This will be my 4th elk tag in 5 years, with this year being my third bull tag. My last two bull tags were in unit 8 September archery and this year is unit 10 rifle and last year was a cow tag, I just been very fortunate. It's the luck of the draw! Now if I had that luck to draw a late December coues tag that would be awesome. It's like playing the lottery, or if you can find someone who has a lot of BP's and put in with them, and better your chances.

that's racist!! And sexist!!! And.... Are you a 1%er??? I want tags too!!!

[bigbuckkiller]

Right now I'm sitting on 20 points for Elk and Antelope and didn't get drawn this year either. Your crying about having 5 and not getting drawn.... I don't feel bad for you. Sorry

[bhuntin]

26 for bighorn , 32 years total ...missed one year and its costing me! and I see every year way less drawing...but no sniveling here,just hope!

[Guest 300ultramag.]

Bhuntin you deserve your tag. Good luck this year!

[goinhuntn]

Apparently some on here didn't understand my original post. I never once mentioned changing the way the draw is currently, or did I say anything about fish & game. I said I had 5 points going into the draw & struck out again this year. My venting was for my buddy who drew with 0 points. I am glad for him as I stated in my original post I am frustrated that he drew with 0 points, but again I am glad for him. I'm not whinning I will continue to play the game just as I do in other states until I draw. I also said good luck to those who drew. To the guys with multiple points I'm sure you fill a little frustration when a guy draws with 0 points. For the record I am not putting in for trophy units I put in for easier draw units & I put in for a late archery hunt as well. Some people on this site need to take a chill pill geesh!!!! I'm done with this thread & sorry if I offended anyone with my original post!!

[Shedhunteraz]

You can hunt in any western state OTC. Listen to a Randy Newberg podcast. If you don't hunt elk every year somewhere out west, well that's your own fault and quit your whining

[Alpinebullwinkle]

I do not whine for myself personally as I have been blessed with probably greater than my quota of bull tags (at least 15 in 45+ years). I whine for my family that has not been as lucky as I. It is also difficult to have nice bulls in my yard on almost a daily basis......eating my flowers and grass.... and then see all the family go 6+ years without a tag! I'll be nice to some of the childish and uninformed posters, and not elaborate anymore.

[CouesFanatic]

Right now I'm sitting on 20 points for Elk and Antelope and didn't get drawn this year either. Your crying about having 5 and not getting drawn.... I don't feel bad for you. Sorry

 

You didn't get drawn because you are holding out for certain tags. If you wanted to hunt it could have happened long ago.

[krp]

A quick look at the late rifle bull hunts. Starting with 2 BPs, hunter and loyalty. Unit 1 is the longest wait with 7 years, most take 4 to 5 years, even units 9 and 10 take 5 years.

 

There's no secret math going to improve that. More tags or fewer applicants is the only way.

 

Kent

[TOBY]

Had an archery bull tag in 13, nothing in 14, archery cow in 15, and I got drawn again this year.

Stupid system for sure! Sitting on 11 points for goat so getting closer to my archery goat tag.

No sympathy for guys being picky and to boot my dad drew trophy bull in 10 last year with no points and shot a 2 point, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[OpticNerd]

I use to be in favor of the squaring bonus points method but after giving it more thought I think AZ's current method is probably better overall. As mentioned in an earlier post the only way to truly improve odds is more tags and/or fewer applicants and I think we can all agree that we don't want more tags and as far as fewer applicants that's not happening any time soon either. It is what it is.

 

One of the main reason I'm not in favor of the squaring method anymore is I like the fact that anyone has a chance to draw a good tag with our current system no matter how many points they have especially for the kids. My cousin had two of his kids draw trophy bull tags this year with very few points. If I remember correctly I think either kid had no more than 3 BP. I feel it's a good thing that the younger kids in AZ still have a chance to draw quality tags like this at such an early age while they're still kids with not as much responsibilities in life yet. Squaring the points will reduce the chance of the younger hunters starting out with very few bonus points from getting these quality tags.