CouesWhitetail Report post Posted January 13, 2013 Thank you to those that took the time to write letters and attend the meeting. Although baiting isnt the hunt style I choose, I see value in the way it can be used to hunt areas that are too thick for spot and stalk hunting. And I like how it allows the hunter to be close to the animal for a better shot. I dont understand how baiting is any less fair chase than sitting a waterhole and it seems to me water concentrates animals even more than baiting does. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjvcon Report post Posted January 13, 2013 Never hunted over bait a day in my life. That said, this is the same type of BS that I see from the Feds. Bunch of power hungry officials that won't listen to opposing points of view, even if they are factually correct. Same old Bull Poop ... different day. America has become overrun by self absorbed, self important politicians who want to control every facet of life around them, even when their "control" is ill advised and unpopular. Very sad. By the way ... not sure why a couple of folks on here had to get so confrontational in discussing this. Seems to me that the conversation could have been kept calm and clean from insults. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted January 13, 2013 Gino, I want to thank you personally for taking such a passionate stance. You stood up to the bureaucrats, you sent out emails, you got really involved and made your voice heard. On the flip-side, you mentioned that those who had not undertaken this battle should not complain about its outcome. While I revere you for taking a stand, there are a lot of us who have already walked that path. These commission meetings, asking for public input are nothing more than a dog-and-pony show. They proved that during the discourse in this last meeting. They are obliged, maybe legally, to let you express your opinion, but their ears are closed, their mind already made up. I felt very passionate about the tag re-allocation in certain units years ago, my friends called “The end of hunting, as we know it”… I went to meetings, I expressed my concern… At the end of the day, they don’t give one rat’s butt. They are smarter than us, they are calling the shots, and not one bit of a life-long Arizona hunter trying to “educate” them is going to sway the vote one way or another. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maximus Report post Posted January 13, 2013 Man. Between the dictatorship in the white house and the g and f we may have to start honing arrowheads and sticks pretty soon. Too much government control.sorry i agree with everythink that everybody said, but you have no idea what dictatorship is, did you ever live under a dictarorship ? you should try and then how free we are in this country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flatlander Report post Posted January 13, 2013 It seems to me at the root of problems like this is a lack of accountability by the commission. There are no consequences for dancing all over the rights of hunters in this state. I have been outspoken in my support of G&F as I think they have a difficult job and sportsman have nearly impossible expectations. That said, there is absolutely no excuse for the disrespect they showed to sportsman on this topic. Ridiculous. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted January 13, 2013 I never have, and never will use bait. However, there are some good folks on this site that use bait, and I voiced my opinion on their behalf. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShutYourLib Report post Posted January 13, 2013 Wow, in reading this thread, it appears that nobody actually uses bait. Why are you all so worked up? HAHA.. too funny that nobody will admit to using. In general, I am 100% against the passing of any new laws. In my mind, if there are concerns about a disease, or anything else for that matter, there should be some research conducted by the appropriate biologists employed by G&F or private party. The findings of that research made available to the hunters of the state, then a vote should be held for all licensed hunters in the state. They should only be concerned with enforcement of laws that the sportsmen/women have deemed appropriate. If they are not appreciative of the collective voices, provided no factual studies or evidence, I am no longer going to give G&F my regular donation that I contributed to them annually. What needs to happen is for the great people of AZ to decide that enough is enough. Everyone should take 2014 off from hunting, do not buy any tags, or put in for any annual hunts. The only way to make our voices heard is to take away the allowance. Things would change in a hurry. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjvcon Report post Posted January 13, 2013 Wow, in reading this thread, it appears that nobody actually uses bait. Why are you all so worked up? HAHA.. too funny that nobody will admit to using. In general, I am 100% against the passing of any new laws. In my mind, if there are concerns about a disease, or anything else for that matter, there should be some research conducted by the appropriate biologists employed by G&F or private party. The findings of that research made available to the hunters of the state, then a vote should be held for all licensed hunters in the state. They should only be concerned with enforcement of laws that the sportsmen/women have deemed appropriate. If they are not appreciative of the collective voices, provided no factual studies or evidence, I am no longer going to give G&F my regular donation that I contributed to them annually. What needs to happen is for the great people of AZ to decide that enough is enough. Everyone should take 2014 off from hunting, do not buy any tags, or put in for any annual hunts. The only way to make our voices heard is to take away the allowance. Things would change in a hurry. First off ... I have HONESTLY NEVER BAITED. That said, I have friends who are great hunters (I'd put 'em up against anyone when it comes to covering ground, glassing, and stalking) who have, and I'd never begrudge them for it. I like your idea about the people who are licensed voting, but I have my concerns about the research. My understanding is that there are a lot of West Coast College Grads getting into both the Forest Service and many G&F Departments (including ours). The problem with this is that most have been INDOCTRINATED as a part of their education. We've seen how that has gone with Al Gore and his "Climate Change Research Minions". They purposefully skew the results, because they are not interested in truth and reality. They want to prove their "reality" as they know it and deem appropriate. Then they can carry on with what they want to do, regardless of its final consequence ... they can always find someone else to blame when their policies cause the excrement to hit the fan. Just look at forestry and the fires we've had in the last 10-12 years if you need a fresh example. Think the tree huggers will ever admit they were wrong. Right ... if you believe that I have a few SURE FIRE investements to sell you . Honestly, we "the People" are screwed ... sorry if that is too blunt. The only way it gets fixed is fire them all and start over ... but that is easier said than done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShutYourLib Report post Posted January 13, 2013 That's the beauty of true democracy. Regardless of their background, it’s ultimately the vote of the people that make the decisions. There has to be some sort of research, analysis, or rational to justify any potential recommendation for change. I am not fully up to speed on the current actions necessary to modify existing G&F activities, but it would appear that a small group makes a pitch for a recommended change, they get buy in from what 5 commissioners, and shizam.. it’s a done deal. I do not think that we “screwed”, but any change will take sacrifice. The problem with folks nowadays is that they are fine with getting screwed for a very long time. Everyone seems fairly content with the crumbs, but one day, everyone will have had enough and make them change. The ball is truly in our court. The department is fully funded by us, we just lack the camaraderie, discipline, and inconvenience of making it work our way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
654321 Report post Posted January 13, 2013 Wow can you believe the AZGFD banned baiting this state now ranks right up there with the other 28 other states that dont allow baiting. It seems there are a few members that are disgusted with this outcome and thinks the AZGFD hates hunters and couldn't care less what hunters think. Heres one for you, maybe just maybe most Az hunters agree with the ban. I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that when the tag grab fiasco was occurring that the majority of Az hunters were very suppportive of squashing any attempt to steal tags from what many people felt were the average joes and the departmnet was made very aware of how most felt about it. I'm going to go out on another limb and bet that if most hunters in this state felt the same way about baiting as they did about the tag grab the ban on baiting wouldnt have happened. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe Report post Posted January 13, 2013 +1 with above post Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azgutpile Report post Posted January 14, 2013 +1 with above post +2... In addition, maybe we can have a few of our December archery hunts back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowsniper Report post Posted January 14, 2013 Wow, in reading this thread, it appears that nobody actually uses bait. Why are you all so worked up? HAHA.. too funny that nobody will admit to using. Yeah, kind of funny. Just like rats jumping from a sinking ship. I won't "out" anyone, but I know of at least a few who hunted over the evil bait, and now deny it. It's not even illegal yet, and people are denying bait like Peter denied Christ. Sickening. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pwrguy Report post Posted January 14, 2013 Ok, having all kinds of problems here. Trying to get this typed and posted. This has certainly been a heated topic. I have one thing to say, I have attended dog and pony shows in the past, I try to avoid them at all costs these day's Minds Made Up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted January 14, 2013 Hey guys (654321 and averagejoe), funny fact - I don't bait either (I've used salt in the past, but currently don't have any active salt licks). I also don't hunt bears or lions with dogs. It's really not about baiting or picking one style of hunting over another. It's about a handful of priveledged people making decisions, pretending to listen to those of us they represent, and just doing whatever they want to do. Today it's baiting, no skin off my back, I don't bait. Tomorrow its hunting with dogs, again, no problem to me, I don't hunt with dogs. The next day trapping, why should I care? I don't trap. Sooner or later, they'll be after something I do care about, and there will be nobody standing next to me, because I wasn't there for them. Look at the bigger picture guys. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
