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Me. If you don't obviously know, then you are ignoring the facts. I'll tell you my selfish reason for not wanting crossbows in the archery season... the quotas. F&G said that if you exclude crossbow kills in the August/September season... every single unit would have been open for the December hunt. Before the quotas I didn't care one bit about crossbows in the archery seasons. This is F&G's screw up for allowing them in the first place. I personally know of three able guys who abused the crossbow process... and shot forkys in August. One of them recently shot a javalina with a recurve. All 3 are just lazy and want easy. Ed F

1. I do. The fact that they do not have to be drawn while the animal is there, can be shot off shooting sticks (a demo was provided of this), and is a shouldered weapon makes them much different than a hand drawn bow. 2. I was part of the committee (focus group is what they call it) for this issue. The data (2 years of mandatory reporting) that was given to us was very revealing. Some units that closed early had over 40% crossbow kills! One startling fact given to us was that no unit would have closed early had it not been for crossbow take. 3. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I find it interesting that some units only allow, say 10 archery deer to be taken but issue hundreds of general (mostly rifle) permits WITHOUT requiring mandatory reporting. Hmmm 4. That was a recommendation to the department from our group. We suggested a few November elk hunts and some metro hunts for crossbows. Not sure why that wasn’t originally recommended to the commission. However, perhaps that’s on the horizon. It is difficult to place a ‘new’ hunt, as many of them are stacked up already. I think this is a good start for the department to address the obvious abuse by many utilizing the temporary crossbow permit system. Something needed to be done and they realized you’re not going to make everyone happy. Now if they would just make mandatory reporting for ANY/ALL big game hunts and species. JMO

Anything to make a dollar, can’t stand this guy

“Spot selling” has been around for a while. Not sure if being a guide puts restrictions on that or not? Either way, if you buy a spot online, I’d say buy at your own risk. I’m sure the guide isn’t selling his own spots.

I used Dwane Adams map service one year up in the Kaibab. Different but similar. He gave us a few spots depending on if it was still warm and a few if it was cold. And how to hunt them. I felt it was the next best thing to hiring a guide. And luckily no one else showed up at the same spots. Now selling pin drops to a honey hole and selling several to the same honey hole isn't a honey hole anymore and I would be pissed and want my money back. Is he a licensed guide? And if not is that considered making money off hunting and against the law?

And you will be able to, but with a champ permit - which is more controlled than the current xbow permit - correct?

Where does it say you need to use “primitive” archery equipment in the regs

Here is a copy of the letter I sent to Game and Fish, the Gov office, my State Senator, Pres of the Senate, 4 diff media outlets, and a couple ADA groups. Please contact Game and FIsh and make your opinion known. Even if you disagree with me, you have an opinion, its wrong 😂, but express it just the same. there are many reasons besides lack of strength to draw a bow that can cause someone to be unable to draw, hold, aim and release accurately an arrow. In my case I have nerve damage/neuropathy, essential tremors, shoulder injuries, and an auto immune connective tissue problem that causes my ligaments and tendons to rip away where they are supposed to be. Its not a strength problems. 3 shoulder surgeries to put things back in place forced me to look at other options. My surgeon at the VA was the person who told me about the program. The VA has been pushing disabled vets to get back to doing what we did prior to our injuries, especially outdoors with our friends and families. It sometimes requires adaptive means. Taking away options because some people have abused it, doesn't seem like a good idea. Go after the bad players. I know its extreme but Lets get rid of all handicap parking because some people inherited their grandparents old placards or lied..... https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScYIhOra-8hsDSgR8mjOmG99pSydNfhvrvufWo8B3zbBRfAtg/viewform rulemaking@azgfd.gov Subject: why is AZ Game and Fish taking away hunting opportunities from disabled hunters that are not disabled enough Arizona Game and Fish Department 5000 W. Carefree Hwy Phoenix, AZ 85086 Subject: Opposition to Repeal of R12-4-216 and Advocacy for Equitable Hunting Opportunities Dear Arizona Game and Fish Department, I am writing to express my concerns regarding the proposed repeal of R12-4-216 and the growing discourse surrounding crossbow use in archery-only hunts. As a committed advocate for equitable and fair hunting practices, I believe this change could alienate and disadvantage certain hunters, particularly those with physical disabilities who rely on crossbows as their legal method of take. The argument that crossbow technology has advanced beyond "standard archery equipment" does not hold when weighed against the progress of other hunting technologies. Compound bows to high-powered scopes, technological advancements have benefited all hunters across the board, offering more ethical and efficient harvesting opportunities. Singling out crossbows is an inconsistent and inequitable stance. If technology is a concern, should we not then limit compound bows, inline muzzleloaders, or range finders? Clearly, this approach is neither practical nor fair. Furthermore, statistical claims about the increased number of crossbow hunters are misleading when contextualized with Arizona's growing population and hunter demographics. With a population increase of 9.9% since 2015 and more individuals entering the sport, a proportional rise in crossbow permits is inevitable. The 1.3% of permit holders using crossbows represents a minor fraction of the total hunters and cannot reasonably be classified as a problem. Assertions regarding quick harvests and over-the-counter (OTC) unit closures fail to account for practical realities. Disabled hunters with crossbows are more likely to act on their opportunities due to limited mobility, while other hunters often prioritize trophy harvests, which extends hunting durations. It’s worth noting that nearly half of the OTC units remain open, debunking the notion of widespread closures due to crossbow use. Recommendations: Refinement of the CHAMP and Crossbow Permit Application Process: Introduce stricter accountability for medical professionals authorizing crossbow permits to ensure legitimate use. Transition to Draw-Based Archery Deer Seasons: Implement a system where all hunters, regardless of method of take, compete equally through a draw process for archery tags. This ensures fairness and mitigates concerns about overharvest by a specific group. Public Representation and Transparency: Include representation from crossbow and CHAMP permit holders in stakeholder discussions to ensure their perspectives are considered in decision-making processes. Arizona Game and Fish has worked hard to build rapport with non-hunting constituencies. Repealing R12-4-216 without adequately addressing concerns risks damaging the Department's reputation and undoing years of effort to foster public support for responsible wildlife management. I urge you to reconsider the proposed changes and instead work toward solutions that maintain equitable opportunities for all hunters, honoring the diversity and inclusivity that defines Arizona's outdoor heritage. Thank you for considering my concerns. I am confident Arizona Game and Fish will act in the best interest of all stakeholders. Sincerely, Steve

Less than 100 rounds fired. My boys used this on a couple hunts when they were young, so it does have some bumps and scratches. Has a Leupold vx1 3-9 mounted. It also comes with rcbs dies. $700

Includes: 1) The carbine itself with the stock 2) 7-30 Waters Thomas barrel- this is a 30-30 necked to 7mm. 7mm-08 but OG and way more cool 3) .358 Winchester D A Van Horn barrel - 308 but necked up to 358. it's bad-butt 4/5) Two scope mounts- one is a rail, one is a 1-piece with rings 6/7) Die set for both calibers Etc: Bullets for both bores. Two of the 7mm boxes are almost empty (20%) but the rest are full or close to it. I also have some brass for the 730 waters (free) and factory ammo @ 30$/box Hard to price these but I'm starting w/ $1200 OBO for the package, quick sale based on what I'm seeing on gunbroker. I'm in North PHX near the sportsmans. Buy it before I change my mind- it's maybe too pretty to part w/

From a blind or tree stand, way more lethal than a compound. Spot and stalk, chasing bugles, etc. way less effective. On drought years when everyone is sitting water, yes I am sure A LOT more deer are getting killed with crossbows than years when water is everywhere.

I don’t believe they are banning anything but rather moving them to the more appropriate season/hunts? The department simply defined what a bow and arrow is, and crossbows didn’t fit that definition. Having said that, they realize they’re a viable weapons system and have a place. Again, those that qualify for CHAMP would still be able to lawfully use a crossbow during an archery hunt.

2002 F250 7.3 Powerstroke Diesel 290k mi 4x4 short bed crew cab Original owner Kc Stage 1 turbo Full force diesel 180/30 fuel injectors Php hydra tuner Jelibuilt tunes Transmission done right stage 2 transmission - about 1500 miles since install S&B Intake Leveling kit 17” wheels 35” bf Goodrich ko2 Bed cover Bed linered Listing at $18000 located in tempe

Who here really thinks hunting with a crossbow gives a hunter an unfair advantage over a compound bow.? They are way more cumbersome to load an arrow, especially in a hunting scenario. Get out cocking rope. Makes a nice loud click. Put rope away. Get a bolt out etc. All while trying to see the animals location. . Hope that bucks not laughing to hard. Now I'm walking around with a cocked, loaded crossbow for rest of day. Not to mention hazards of getting in ,out of a the truck. Take one out while walking thru the woods for a few miles, they get heavy and awkward . Let alone problems dealing with the rugged terrains. Kinda heard the ridiculous theory that crossbow hunters are killing more deer, than other hunters. All archery hunters just love the new quota system. Its ok to limit number of deer harvested during the otc archery season. They even added extra days to hunt . They still give out thousands of rifle permits. Why not give a quota system for crossbows. Unfortunately I can no longer use my compound bow. Due to arthritis in my left thumb., hand. Its very painful just to hold a bow , let alone draw. To be honest I'm having problems just gripping a crossbow or a rifle to get a steady shot. Practicing with shooting sticks helps. Did you see the list of tags for the hunter pool. Giving out thousands of tags for numerous species. Why not make some of those tags, available for a season for crossbows.

What is the reason for banning anything in hunting? Because the more we can exclude others from participation, the more we can tailor hunting around our own interests, preserving our own opportunities at the expense of others. Yes, a crossbow is easier to use than a compound bow. Yes, a compound bow is easier to use than a traditional bow. That’s why compound guys want compounds excluded. Same reason trad guys want their own season. The simple fact is that as the population of AZ grows, we will have to find ways to further limit the % of harvest. That can be done in a lot of different ways. Nearly all people will look at others before being willing to change themselves. Crossbow's and compound bows are an easy thing to look at and point to for exclusion. But there are other ways to limit efficacy. What would happen to success rates if we didn’t allow sittIng water? On drought years, archery success rates are way higher than when it’s abundant. I don’t have strong feelings about any of the weapon types. But I do think that limiting more and more weapon types or groups of hunters is just death my 1,000 cuts. We can keep trimming back what is allowed, but the growing population will just keep pushing the demand. So we need to work together to develop solutions that simultaneously increase wildlife populations and control efficacy.

Other than the argument crossbows aren't archery equipment what is the issue with a disabled person using an xbow during an archery hunt? Why are they less archery than a modern compound loaded with today's top of the line accessories? I've been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease and other conditions that make it hard to hunt. It's tough to go from bench pressing over 300lbs to having difficulty even walking. I have never killed anything with a crossbow but when I get to the point I can't shoot a compound I won't hesitate to go crossbow.

Saw it in the PDF flyer , 14K

Thanks for the info. They have my deposit of $721 from 2021 and I have the invoice and receipt for that, sitting in my email inbox. They have also seemed to have blocked my cell phone number and not returned any of my texts or voicemails over the past year. Given those things, I was pretty sure that my money was simply lost at this point, but given your post and the other member getting his lion back, maybe there is some hope yet.

Blame the folks that abused it. Like trail cameras. Give the dept enough data that affects G&F bottom line (hunter sucess)and they will do away w/ the “problem” Not a crossbow guy at all. But I do give the ones that abused it the finger. Go back to baiting scum bag hunters that need to cheat to get animals in the dirt.

Looking at things, he could draw most the early rifle hunts. Lots of options out there. 10, 3C, 22, even 23N is right there. You guys should go have an awesome hunt.

Point guard abuse needs to be addressed also

I sent mine too. Ed F Good job AZGFD. You have finally done something that made sense... identifying that crossbows are not archery equipment and that the current system was abused by many. Now... get busy on fixing the quota system that you haphazardly put in place.

😘

it’s pretty well documented over the last 10 years with social media and guys taking the game more serious that moisture does in fact play a major role in the size of the elk racks. It’s AZ, there will be some big bulls killed no matter what

Up, why tear up your daily driver